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In-game advertisement

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  • #91
    Originally posted by daarkside View Post
    U wont be able to spectate pro games without ingame ads. The tournament hosters WILL forbid the ingame specating to force u to their video streams and shove ads down ur throat anyway. It is the way esports works rignt now, it runs on sponsors money and ..... i said everythink in the OP about it.
    I don't see why that has to be the case, it certainly isn't so now. I can watch tournaments and live streams fine and ad-free (did so with HoN before Dota 2 as well). The thing is, ads are annoying and usually a sadly necessary profit tactic, especially when it gets intrusive enough to be within the game itself (something which I have rarely, if ever, seen in online competetive games? Where has this been implemented?). Valve is a big company that can afford to make a free model work without infesting it with ads.

    In any case, I just don't understand how the userbase can excitedly condone in-game advertising like this (given I just skimmed the thread). Anyway, my personal input as a player, for what it's worth, is no to ads. Especially in-game ads.

    Edit: after re-reading the OP, I just wanted to say that the way I perceive sponsors to work, is that they sponsor teams and the teams advertise them, or they sponsor tournaments to plaster their brand over them - and this gives way to professional competetive play. I don't see how that has anything to do with Valve and how they should handle their possible revenue from this game - but I believe a cosmetic shop will do the trick (and is supposed to be implemented) and other such things. In-game ads are not necessary (and if they are, I'm against them). Also, as far as revenue for the players go (teams, casters etc), I don't see why advertising can't remain as subtle as it is instead of invading in-game experience. In all, heavy ad-support is not a very classy move IMO.
    Last edited by alebhast; 03-01-2012, 01:13 PM.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by alebhast View Post
      (something which I have rarely, if ever, seen in online competetive games? Where has this been implemented?).
      it hasnt, hence the thread. A core, but yet untouched(because extreme) topic to get the esports going.


      Originally posted by alebhast View Post
      Edit: after re-reading the OP, I just wanted to say that the way I perceive sponsors to work, is that they sponsor teams and the teams advertise them, or they sponsor tournaments to plaster their brand over them - and this gives way to professional competetive play.
      but where and how do they do that? It is not enought to place some banners on ur clan page to make enought sponsor money to pay 5-6 players a monthly salary AND to send them around the globe few times a year. Most clans barely make it to the black numbers, most clans keep a percentage of the tournament winnigs, most clans live off voluntary people doing the most work.
      Same goes for leagues, they can advertise the sponsors on their page and on a video stream. Taking all the costs into account most of them have a barely working business modell. ESL takes ~1year to pay out the price money, MLG works ob venture capital, capital that is getting low, so they start to think and test a pay per view model for the future, charging 20 dollars for a weekend tourney.
      Yes u are right, professional competetive play exists, since 14 years, but i want it to explode!


      Originally posted by alebhast View Post
      I don't see how that has anything to do with Valve and how they should handle their possible revenue from this game - but I believe a cosmetic shop will do the trick (and is supposed to be implemented) and other such things. In-game ads are not necessary (and if they are, I'm against them).
      the thread wasnt about valves revenue modell, i just mentioned it in the other thread(steam wide live match promotion) as a possibility for a tradeoff, valve advertise competetive matches steam wide(5million users at peak!) and grab some money from the ingame ad to compensate for their loss(since they would advertise games at the same spot)

      Originally posted by alebhast View Post
      Also, as far as revenue for the players go (teams, casters etc), I don't see why advertising can't remain as subtle as it is instead of invading in-game experience. In all, heavy ad-support is not a very classy move IMO.
      what do u mean subtle? there are NO ads on dotatv and there are FUCKING annoying ads on video streams right now.
      The point is, if people get the chance to make no money(again, no one is getting rich working in esports, competetive gaming is driven by hearthblood since the beginning) with dotatv and some(still not enought) money with video streams, they WILL preffer video streams and release their content exclusevly on video. Its a question of common sense(and experience from earlier esports years).
      So we either have subtle ingame ads(thats what this thread is about, suggest a feature and find ways to make it as perfect as possible for fans, pros, leagues and casters) or we have NO DOTATV at all. Dotatv is awesome, i wanted something similar for sc2(and for wc3 before) and i wanted it for dota2. Now its there, just in front of my nose and still i know i wont be able to use it, because leagues will(again, they HAVE TO!) force me away from it. I am too young to die on a painfull hearthattack.
      [Suggestion]Display PAUSE duration and number of pauses
      [Suggestion]In-game advertisement, why dota2 needs it
      [Suggestion]Live game/replay filter, rating, sort by option|caster language filter
      [Suggestion]Steam wide top live matches promotion
      [Suggestion]Top live matches, upcomming matches calendar
      [Suggestion]anti spoiler replay feature
      [Suggestion]Matchmaking, ranking, team features

      Comment


      • #93
        nvm, didnt see it was on the spec subforum

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by alebhast View Post
          I don't see why that has to be the case, it certainly isn't so now. I can watch tournaments and live streams fine and ad-free (did so with HoN before Dota 2 as well). The thing is, ads are annoying and usually a sadly necessary profit tactic, especially when it gets intrusive enough to be within the game itself (something which I have rarely, if ever, seen in online competetive games? Where has this been implemented?). Valve is a big company that can afford to make a free model work without infesting it with ads.
          See, you are talking about Valve making money, that is not the focus. The goal is to let you watch games without ads. Watch some starcraft 2, hell, you have to subscribe to MLG to watch their stream now. That is a bad path. Also, streams have ads. I don't know if this is cognitive dissonance or what, but streams have ads, they've always had ads and they will always have ads because they generate money for the streamer. Usually ads come after/before a game and before (sometimes after as well) a vod. The ads WOULDN'T be a part of the game you PLAY, they would be a part of the game you WATCH. If you watch a stream like Demon, Fear, Dendi, hell, even Tobi has ads (look at the bottom of your screen). Point is, those ads are not intrusive, but they serve a very useful function, get more revenue.

          If I'm Razer and I can own my stream and make money by forcing people there or let them watch for free live with no ads, I'd never let them watch it for free. But if I can advertise in game and allow my viewers to control what they watch, then that is a better watching experience (assuming the ads are in the middle of your screen or some shit like that). In client watching is way better than a stream if you still get the audio from a mumble server or something; I think we can all agree on that.

          In any case, I just don't understand how the userbase can excitedly condone in-game advertising like this (given I just skimmed the thread). Anyway, my personal input as a player, for what it's worth, is no to ads. Especially in-game ads.

          Edit: after re-reading the OP, I just wanted to say that the way I perceive sponsors to work, is that they sponsor teams and the teams advertise them, or they sponsor tournaments to plaster their brand over them - and this gives way to professional competetive play. I don't see how that has anything to do with Valve and how they should handle their possible revenue from this game - but I believe a cosmetic shop will do the trick (and is supposed to be implemented) and other such things. In-game ads are not necessary (and if they are, I'm against them). Also, as far as revenue for the players go (teams, casters etc), I don't see why advertising can't remain as subtle as it is instead of invading in-game experience. In all, heavy ad-support is not a very classy move IMO.
          The thing is that the ads would LET you watch a tournament game in-game. It would inherently be less subtle than the streams because there is (shouldn't) be any video ads, but still have the ads on the bottom of the screen. Also, you AREN'T in-game for that, you are not playing, the ads are already there in streams and you don't even notice them apparently.

          Option A: Watch a stream, see ads on bottom/top of screen, see 30 seconds video ads here and there
          Option B: Watch in game, use a casters mumble channel, see ads on bottom of screen. Most, if not all, of the pros I can think of with very few of the cons.

          Finally, as far as how the money would work I imagine Valve would put up advertising in spectator games (maybe only those related to the tournament), Valve wouldn't receive the ad money, they'd probably have to pay the other organization some in order to get them to NOT stream. However, more people in game, means it is more popular on the charts, which means more people on steam at once, more people in dota2, more people buying things on steam and dota2, which is generally a very profitable strategy for them (it's allowed them to double their revenue each year for the last 7 years)

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by bwells View Post
            See, you are talking about Valve making money, that is not the focus. The goal is to let you watch games without ads. Watch some starcraft 2, hell, you have to subscribe to MLG to watch their stream now. That is a bad path. Also, streams have ads. I don't know if this is cognitive dissonance or what, but streams have ads, they've always had ads and they will always have ads because they generate money for the streamer. Usually ads come after/before a game and before (sometimes after as well) a vod. The ads WOULDN'T be a part of the game you PLAY, they would be a part of the game you WATCH. If you watch a stream like Demon, Fear, Dendi, hell, even Tobi has ads (look at the bottom of your screen). Point is, those ads are not intrusive, but they serve a very useful function, get more revenue.

            If I'm Razer and I can own my stream and make money by forcing people there or let them watch for free live with no ads, I'd never let them watch it for free. But if I can advertise in game and allow my viewers to control what they watch, then that is a better watching experience (assuming the ads are in the middle of your screen or some shit like that). In client watching is way better than a stream if you still get the audio from a mumble server or something; I think we can all agree on that.



            The thing is that the ads would LET you watch a tournament game in-game. It would inherently be less subtle than the streams because there is (shouldn't) be any video ads, but still have the ads on the bottom of the screen. Also, you AREN'T in-game for that, you are not playing, the ads are already there in streams and you don't even notice them apparently.

            Option A: Watch a stream, see ads on bottom/top of screen, see 30 seconds video ads here and there
            Option B: Watch in game, use a casters mumble channel, see ads on bottom of screen. Most, if not all, of the pros I can think of with very few of the cons.

            Finally, as far as how the money would work I imagine Valve would put up advertising in spectator games (maybe only those related to the tournament), Valve wouldn't receive the ad money, they'd probably have to pay the other organization some in order to get them to NOT stream. However, more people in game, means it is more popular on the charts, which means more people on steam at once, more people in dota2, more people buying things on steam and dota2, which is generally a very profitable strategy for them (it's allowed them to double their revenue each year for the last 7 years)
            I'm sorry, I suppose I wasn't very clear on my position. To sum it up: for me, as a dota player who is called to evaluate the quality of a product, advertisement has a negative impact. I want to see the game grow, but I'm mostly concerned with playing it and am fine with the way it is. Advertising is a way for people involved with this game to make revenue, this makes the competetive scene grow, etc, but I am neither a competetive player nor a razer/valve employee. I'm a gamer who, if given the choice, would rather not have ads.

            Having said that, I am not conceited enough to think that this matters as much as making a profit, and I enjoy the game too much to care about some advertisement, which (as you pointed out) is currently subtle enough (by which I mean is not a video pop-up, does not interrupt gameplay, is not embedded in the gameplay - things discussed about in this thread) that I barely notice it. It's usually really just a picture in a neutral space on the screen. I don't mind it, I don't like it either.

            Having these ads in the spectator mode instead of the streams doesn't sound like that much of a difference and I doubt having in-game spectators as opposed to live stream spectators factors into the popularity of the game itself - but that's not for us to figure out, it's for valve, really (for what it's worth: personally, as Gaben has pointed out in several interviews - whether it's honest or just public image making -, I think it could be appealing to a larger audience if the game is kept as high up in quality as possible, which for me includes no in-game advertisements).

            So yeah, I don't like to think of myself as conceited on the subject, but I'd also like to think I'm not resigned enough to excitedly condone it.
            Last edited by alebhast; 03-02-2012, 04:33 PM.

            Comment


            • #96
              Every single option is serious intrusive advertising.

              If they do anything similar to what OP proposed I'll honestly cry.

              Yeah I am probably selfish but being part of casuals who are 99.99% of DotA 2 community I couldn't stand having forced averts in-game because of like few dozen players in competitive scene.
              None of this is real.

              Comment


              • #97
                An alternative to MOTDs might be advertisements or sponsorship images during the drafting splashscreen.

                e.g. When Na'Vi plays, they get sponsor images of Steelseries and Kaspersky etc under their team in the draft. When MYM plays they get Razer etc.

                Or perhaps if you go to player perspective/hero chase it could show a sponsor image in the empty UI space that many streamers currently use for camera feeds or still images.

                And any sponsorship if at all should only appear for spectators when a sponsored tournament is being broadcast, or maybe a sponsored player is in a game. So unless you're watching a tournament or competitive player, you should never see any advertisements in game at all. Hence if you're a part of the 99.99% as mentioned above, you aren't subject to any advertising.

                Comment


                • #98
                  I really do not get why put ads in game?? (don't tell me it's for dota's sake) It's like planting a nuclear facility to your backyard. Sooo unnecessary. Really unacceptable.
                  Pro players have ads on their streams, that's adequate. This is like idea contamination. Everyone has their ideas but it does not mean every single one has to be useful. Please just skip this idea.. :/

                  edit:typo
                  Last edited by LV-426; 03-04-2012, 12:46 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    People, he is talking about in game ads for spectating games only, and only it if is enabled by tournament organizers. This will allow tournaments to be watched in the game client rather than watching streams which are advertising supported since they need to monetize tournaments so they can offer prize pools, pay casters etc.

                    I think many of ideas presented in the OP were good ones, they would allow flexibility by tournament hosts to have the level of advertising they need while allowing us to watch in client which would be incredibly awesome.

                    Comment


                    • i don't really know what should i say... are you guys totally nuts? why do you want freaking ads in game? we SHOULD want ads out of game. i really can't understand you. thats dumbest idea ever. and besides of that, let valve think their own ads, and then we will discuss about how they must remove them.

                      Comment


                      • Spectating, tournament games, it does not matter.Ads are like viruses, they spread, spread, spread!!

                        Comment


                        • I think that is all a great way to turn some extra profit. My only fear is that the advertisements would become cluttered or over bearing. There needs to be a neat layout and presentation. I really don't want it to be like some of the f2p mmos out there that are just plastered with adds and all kinds of in-game and ui banners out the waZZzoo. Overall I think it should be done. But it needs to be done properly.

                          Comment


                          • Some form of advertisement needs to be put into place for tournaments. Or else we will never be able to watch these in spectator mode, and always have to watch streams.
                            I'm sorry Valve, but the only way I know how to coach players is with tough love.

                            We all play for fun, try hards are just WAY BETTER than you. Read this.

                            dev.dota2.com is about development, if you want to QQ about your last match (trust me, matchmaking algorithm has nothing to do with it): Click here

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by eftmike817 View Post
                              I think that is all a great way to turn some extra profit. My only fear is that the advertisements would become cluttered or over bearing. There needs to be a neat layout and presentation. I really don't want it to be like some of the f2p mmos out there that are just plastered with adds and all kinds of in-game and ui banners out the waZZzoo. Overall I think it should be done. But it needs to be done properly.
                              An ad overkill would reduce the amount of people wanting to watch it, so the tournament hosters/valve would have to reduce it to get the people to watch again. The more the marrier is deffinetly not the best formula for advertisment of any kind. Once implemented its up to the fans to VOTE with their views and to correct over bearing advertisment in their beloved game.
                              [Suggestion]Display PAUSE duration and number of pauses
                              [Suggestion]In-game advertisement, why dota2 needs it
                              [Suggestion]Live game/replay filter, rating, sort by option|caster language filter
                              [Suggestion]Steam wide top live matches promotion
                              [Suggestion]Top live matches, upcomming matches calendar
                              [Suggestion]anti spoiler replay feature
                              [Suggestion]Matchmaking, ranking, team features

                              Comment


                              • +4

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