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Possible Spectator Cheat?

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  • Possible Spectator Cheat?

    So I was thinking, since the Live tournament games in-game are just delayed by a few minutes (2-6 minutes)... can you cheat by:

    1. Pause the match for 2-6 minutes and let the delayed spectator stream 'catch up'

    2. Watch spectator stream for yourself on 2nd computer/friend and have them relay the info to you

    3. Therefore you know everything, and when you unpause it would be the same hero positions, items, etc from the stream 2-6 mins ago when you 1st paused (the information would be current because the game was paused for the duration of the delay). Literally maphack at any crucial point in the game
    Last edited by poogs; 02-04-2013, 04:34 PM.

  • #2
    So you get a situational position every pause, which can be used only a limited number of times? Don't most tournament matches have a admin/referee anyway?

    Just knowing the position of certain heroes for a single instant doesn't mean much. At best it will give you a succeful gank (if you are already near the enemy hero) or get you to avoid one.

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    • #3
      Spectators get paused too. They get paused the same duration as the original pause.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Agente L View Post
        So you get a situational position every pause, which can be used only a limited number of times? Don't most tournament matches have a admin/referee anyway?

        Just knowing the position of certain heroes for a single instant doesn't mean much. At best it will give you a succeful gank (if you are already near the enemy hero) or get you to avoid one.
        LOL, it means everything at the high level tournament games are played at. if you are an avid tournament game watcher/high level player you will know that 1 big teamwipe or successful roshan kill/gank can easily determine a game. in a tournament this easily translates to $$$

        and doing this lets you know ALL enemy hero positions, levels, items, hp. not some, not certain, not kind of.

        if you don't think a Storm Spirit or Clockwork knowing the exact position of enemy Enigma through fog while your team is about to try and push a rax is not gamebreaking, you really need to think it over. literally unpause -> hookshot his exact location even if he's hiding in fog & behind trees waiting to blink and blackhole your team. you prevent the blink blackhole completely
        Last edited by poogs; 02-04-2013, 05:37 PM.

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        • #5
          i do think that the pause function gets abused alot in tournaments, like seriously? those pros are sponsored and are given expensive pc to play on and connection, and they always make excuse of bad connection or fps? They should call tournament pauses = timeouts instead and play it like football LOL

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          • #6
            Originally posted by poogs View Post
            LOL, it means everything at the high level tournament games are played at. if you are an avid tournament game watcher/high level player you will know that 1 big teamwipe or successful roshan kill/gank can easily determine a game. in a tournament this easily translates to $$$

            and doing this lets you know ALL enemy hero positions, levels, items, hp. not some, not certain, not kind of.

            if you don't think a Storm Spirit or Clockwork knowing the exact position of enemy Enigma through fog while your team is about to try and push a rax is not gamebreaking, you really need to think it over. literally unpause -> hookshot his exact location even if he's hiding in fog & behind trees waiting to blink and blackhole your team
            It's incredibly situational at best. Late game, most players are together/you can see people farming anywhere outside jungle. So it's hard for a team wipe. Most teams do a lot of walking around before actually engaging, even when their are within each other reach.

            For your last two lines, It requires you to be positioned for the gank (which we can't judge for sure either it was blind luck, pure skill or actual cheating), to be in a open spot (since I'm pretty sure most pro players call ss and know when to hide behind creeps when pudge or clock isn't aren't in sight).

            Most pauses are really early game, some times even before the horn sound goes off. On the rare occasions of late game pauses, it's very rare for them to last long.

            I definitely see your point. But I don't think it's an argument strong enough. I mean, one thing is looking up on the huge minimap behind your back to see whats your enemy position on the go for a gank at any point of the game, but using a pause for it, which can end in a useless attempt and wasted pause, seems a bit far fetched.
            Last edited by Agente L; 02-04-2013, 05:32 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Agente L View Post
              I definitely see your point. But I don't think it's an argument strong enough.
              Uh, argument not strong enough for what? I simply believe there should be absolutely no way to cheat like this, but sadly right now there is. And easy to fix.

              They obviously went through great pains to prevent all the maphacking that was rampant in Dota1, so I am just reporting this to valve.



              As for the thread, I am simply asking for confirmation if this method actually works (because I'm pretty sure it does) to give you 'full MH intel' at any period in the game.

              Any discussion on the cheat's effectiveness is rather moot, we can agree the game shouldn't have maphack, right?
              Last edited by poogs; 02-04-2013, 06:03 PM.

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              • #8
                Agreed it is possible but I also think that most pro tournaments have a 2 - 3 pause limit (other than if someone DC). So pausing the game for 5 min twice for absolutely no reason (I suppose you could fake a DC) might become suspicious to the admins? I don't see how it could get solved though - maybe the stream should be delayed by 15 min?

                Obviously this is only a problem for online tournaments - big events like dreamhack or the international are played on a lan in front of an audience so not really possible to pull off.

                Another question - are casters also on a time delay?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Siko27 View Post
                  maybe the stream should be delayed by 15 min?
                  This is not possible. The only fix that comes to my mind is to make the pause not affected by the 2 minute delay, i.e. unpauses/pauses in the game are also instant in the spectator version.

                  Originally posted by Siko27 View Post
                  Another question - are casters also on a time delay?
                  No, they aren't.

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                  • #10
                    Hey, here, have a simple suggestion to get this fixed:


                    The actual game shall send a pause signal to the spectator clients right when the actual game gets paused.
                    The actual game shall send a release_pause signal to the spectator clients right when the actual game gets unpaused.

                    The spectator clients shall not receive another pause when they come to viewing the point where the actual game was paused.
                    If there had been all chats on the actual game while the game was paused, they shall all appear at once, with the same order they appeared on the actual game.
                    Additionally a side note may appear on the left hand section of the screen, tell you that the game was paused at that moment, and maybe also how long it was paused for...

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                    • #11
                      So if casters are not on a time delay what prevents someone from just watching the casters stream while they are playing in a tournament?

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