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ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

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  • Originally posted by TmJ View Post
    Remove the fcking mute system ITS TOTALLY RUINING DOTA2
    lol it is
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    • same shit happened with me !!!!!

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      • Originally posted by nesa View Post
        same shit happened with me !!!!!
        that suckssssss
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        • Originally posted by fastero View Post
          Valve guys are not listening the community anymore and that's disapointing , there are hundreds of people complaining about this mute system (and they are right )but valve don't even care they care how to make $$$ with useless cosmetic items added by dozens every week and ruin this game as fast as possible..322 Valve you are Disapointing
          They are listening to the community, just not the part thats the most important.
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          • Originally posted by Djdkdjdkdjdk View Post
            They are listening to the community, just not the part thats the most important.
            Define "most important", because judging by the numbers available the majority are happy with the game

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            • Originally posted by Djdkdjdkdjdk View Post
              They are listening to the community, just not the part thats the most important.
              You know what? Why we're currently getting new reports after succesfull reports? This has been suggested like a thousand times because people thought that 2 reports are not enough.
              And suddenly they realise that the abuse gets quadrupled or more due to it and they scream why Valve did it.

              Some people want the mute system, some don't. Who is the "most important part"?
              Some people want more reports, some don't. Who is the "most important part"?
              Some people like the MM, some don't. Who ist the "most important part"?
              Some people want a hero each patch, some rather want bug fixed and client improvements. Who is the "most important part"?

              You can make this list quite long. This is the problem and the reason why your answer exists: Valve CAN'T listen to the community, because the community does NOT have one single opinion.
              The community is split in thousands of different combinations of the above themes and more. They pick what propably many want AND they want themselves.
              If you think I've closed or deleted a post unjustified, feel free to PM me and I'll explain it to you/discuss it with you further.

              Comment


              • Firstly, I'm a new player to Dota (about 6 months or so, only played the first Dota three or four times at a lan) and reading this thread is making a lot of sense for some things, the forced 50/50 win/loss rate especially (if that is actually true, though it's definitely ringing true for me now). I'd also like to echo the amount of time it takes for an individual player to be placed in a game. I typically wait between 10 and 20mins for a game, but have waited over 30 mins for multiple sessions. When I say a session, I mean the time it takes to be offered a game, only to have someone decline/timeout, such that you're thrown back in the pool, or, for the game to start and one person failing to connect, throwing you back into the pool again. In total, I've waited a bit over 40mins for a game when this happens. This is with multiple servers selected (typically Australia, US East, US West and Europe West). In total, I have abandoned 3 games, right when I started playing, so any negative effect from abandons should be removed by now.

                Regarding the muting system, I don't believe muting is the way to solve a troll issue. As other people have stated, muting is to the detriment of the team that the muted person is in, more than the muted player. I also don't believe there is currently an effective way to punish this kind of behaviour. If you ban the account from playing, a new account is created. If you go so far as to lock the Steam account from being able to play anything, you're devaluing Steam and preventing people from playing the other games that they have acquired. Similarly, this doesn't stop someone creating a new account and playing Dota anyway. IP blocking also doesn't work.

                This most likely isn't the right place to post this (flame suit on), but I have a suggestion which I believe can help the waiting period and the muting system as well, although it's a significant amount of dev work. This is how I see it:

                The problem:
                The current match finding (not matchmaking) system gives two x 10 opportunities for failure (in a 5v5) and only one for success. The defense for this system that I've heard in the past is that it solves the issue of afk-ers, which is only half the problem and even then, it's not foolproof for stopping afk-ers anyway. Also, the muting system hinders the team the player is part of, more than it hinders the muted player.

                A solution:
                When a person is searching for a game, take them straight out of the main menu and into the game (as though they had clicked the "Accept" button). The game should hold a room where people wait for the game to begin and people should be filtered into the lobby as they meet whatever the matchmaking requirements are. They can chat, as they do now, both with their team and globally. Valve can move the ad's and shopkeepers quiz into the game if you want, there's plenty of room. This takes care of people timing out upon starting the game. Once 10 people are in your game, after a 2/3 second delay, fire a popup for the afk-ers. If they don't accept, the people in the lobby can vote to kick them and wait for someone else to be slotted in. I.e the other 9 people are not thrown back into the void while they wait for matchmaking to re-assemble them into a game. Also, ensure that someone who has been kicked cannot re-join the same room. In addition, give the option for a rematch at the end of the game, by dropping people back to the same room they were in at the start. They can leave the room if they wish, or stick around and wait for empty spots to be refilled, which I believe would help create a better community, faster.

                For the muting problem (in conjunction with the above solution): Remove the player muting and instead when a would-be muted player joins a room, make it known that the player has been reported previously. Do this with an icon beside the players name and a sound that plays or something to similar effect. The icon should change proportionally to the level of reports against the player (either by number of games reported in or by multiples of 5 individual reports) and maybe even the type of reports (ie, the reason that the other users clicked, when they were reporting this user). Immediately give all other non-reported players the ability to vote them out of their game (majority wins). This takes the locus of control away from Dota2 itself and gives Dota2 players the exclusive ability on a game-by-game basis to control how reported players are handled. If players accept the reported party and the reported party offends within this game, other players still have the ability to mute the party (as someone in the early stages of this thread said, it's only two clicks) and report them further. This also offers the ability for incorrectly reported players and players of low report levels, to still be accepted into games.

                The other solution to the muted player problem is to put muted players in games where the rest of their team is also muted, against an actual team of 5 people who can all talk freely, giving mutes crappy games :P Obviously this doesn't solve the issue of incorrectly reported mutes though :P

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                • Totally agree with the creator of this thread . .. . My advice, if you can, , , just play with friends, this game is really not worth playing solo, unless you have extreme patience and will to just stay silent and don't tell anyone anything. . . . because even a kind request to stop feeding ends up getting you reported, and despite Dota 2 devs claiming that bans depend on a duration of time not a single match, it just goes far to show that majority of pple playin this game just report for the sake of it, . .. . and those who try to knock sense into them get reported unfortunately, that's how this works. .. .. . SO basically, only play with friends , else just take time out rather than have to play solo, to save urself the agony. . . . . I have lasted over 3 months now , only playing with friends. . .. and I never care about matchmaking, and my win rate is close to 60% , and when I used to solo queue, I never even reached close to 55% ever . .

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                  • Originally posted by Rirekon View Post
                    Define "most important", because judging by the numbers available the majority are happy with the game
                    The most important are the part of the community that actually cares. The "majority" that are "happy" with the game are the kids that realize they dropped the soap and pick it up on purpose even though they know whats coming to them. Well... anyways the majority are the ones that are ignorant of the major problems that will lead to the downfall of Dota 2(if not, they will lose a lot of random players) and just take it from Valve. Valve knocks the soap out of their hands and they pick it up when Valve tells them to. You know what I mean? Its been a while since I've posted on this thread and had a few beers so im a bit of
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                    • Originally posted by Kryil- View Post
                      You know what? Why we're currently getting new reports after succesfull reports? This has been suggested like a thousand times because people thought that 2 reports are not enough.
                      And suddenly they realise that the abuse gets quadrupled or more due to it and they scream why Valve did it.

                      Some people want the mute system, some don't. Who is the "most important part"?
                      Some people want more reports, some don't. Who is the "most important part"?
                      Some people like the MM, some don't. Who ist the "most important part"?
                      Some people want a hero each patch, some rather want bug fixed and client improvements. Who is the "most important part"?

                      You can make this list quite long. This is the problem and the reason why your answer exists: Valve CAN'T listen to the community, because the community does NOT have one single opinion.
                      The community is split in thousands of different combinations of the above themes and more. They pick what propably many want AND they want themselves.
                      Who the most important part is, are the players that care. The players that come on the dev and post everyday. The players the keep up with threads and posts. Like you, you are a part of the most important part of the community. Your post, negative or positive shows that you care. We ARE the ones that are the most important
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                      • Originally posted by pyro_ns View Post
                        Firstly, I'm a new player to Dota (about 6 months or so, only played the first Dota three or four times at a lan) and reading this thread is making a lot of sense for some things, the forced 50/50 win/loss rate especially (if that is actually true, though it's definitely ringing true for me now). I'd also like to echo the amount of time it takes for an individual player to be placed in a game. I typically wait between 10 and 20mins for a game, but have waited over 30 mins for multiple sessions. When I say a session, I mean the time it takes to be offered a game, only to have someone decline/timeout, such that you're thrown back in the pool, or, for the game to start and one person failing to connect, throwing you back into the pool again. In total, I've waited a bit over 40mins for a game when this happens. This is with multiple servers selected (typically Australia, US East, US West and Europe West). In total, I have abandoned 3 games, right when I started playing, so any negative effect from abandons should be removed by now.

                        Regarding the muting system, I don't believe muting is the way to solve a troll issue. As other people have stated, muting is to the detriment of the team that the muted person is in, more than the muted player. I also don't believe there is currently an effective way to punish this kind of behaviour. If you ban the account from playing, a new account is created. If you go so far as to lock the Steam account from being able to play anything, you're devaluing Steam and preventing people from playing the other games that they have acquired. Similarly, this doesn't stop someone creating a new account and playing Dota anyway. IP blocking also doesn't work.

                        This most likely isn't the right place to post this (flame suit on), but I have a suggestion which I believe can help the waiting period and the muting system as well, although it's a significant amount of dev work. This is how I see it:

                        The problem:
                        The current match finding (not matchmaking) system gives two x 10 opportunities for failure (in a 5v5) and only one for success. The defense for this system that I've heard in the past is that it solves the issue of afk-ers, which is only half the problem and even then, it's not foolproof for stopping afk-ers anyway. Also, the muting system hinders the team the player is part of, more than it hinders the muted player.

                        A solution:
                        When a person is searching for a game, take them straight out of the main menu and into the game (as though they had clicked the "Accept" button). The game should hold a room where people wait for the game to begin and people should be filtered into the lobby as they meet whatever the matchmaking requirements are. They can chat, as they do now, both with their team and globally. Valve can move the ad's and shopkeepers quiz into the game if you want, there's plenty of room. This takes care of people timing out upon starting the game. Once 10 people are in your game, after a 2/3 second delay, fire a popup for the afk-ers. If they don't accept, the people in the lobby can vote to kick them and wait for someone else to be slotted in. I.e the other 9 people are not thrown back into the void while they wait for matchmaking to re-assemble them into a game. Also, ensure that someone who has been kicked cannot re-join the same room. In addition, give the option for a rematch at the end of the game, by dropping people back to the same room they were in at the start. They can leave the room if they wish, or stick around and wait for empty spots to be refilled, which I believe would help create a better community, faster.

                        For the muting problem (in conjunction with the above solution): Remove the player muting and instead when a would-be muted player joins a room, make it known that the player has been reported previously. Do this with an icon beside the players name and a sound that plays or something to similar effect. The icon should change proportionally to the level of reports against the player (either by number of games reported in or by multiples of 5 individual reports) and maybe even the type of reports (ie, the reason that the other users clicked, when they were reporting this user). Immediately give all other non-reported players the ability to vote them out of their game (majority wins). This takes the locus of control away from Dota2 itself and gives Dota2 players the exclusive ability on a game-by-game basis to control how reported players are handled. If players accept the reported party and the reported party offends within this game, other players still have the ability to mute the party (as someone in the early stages of this thread said, it's only two clicks) and report them further. This also offers the ability for incorrectly reported players and players of low report levels, to still be accepted into games.

                        The other solution to the muted player problem is to put muted players in games where the rest of their team is also muted, against an actual team of 5 people who can all talk freely, giving mutes crappy games :P Obviously this doesn't solve the issue of incorrectly reported mutes though :P
                        my mind is too blwon to comprehend what u just posted ill respond ladder sorry for myt speling
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                        • What in the world made you think Valve is focusing on adding stuffs into their store and don't care anything else?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ISDr View Post
                            Totally agree with the creator of this thread . .. . My advice, if you can, , , just play with friends, this game is really not worth playing solo, unless you have extreme patience and will to just stay silent and don't tell anyone anything. . . . because even a kind request to stop feeding ends up getting you reported, and despite Dota 2 devs claiming that bans depend on a duration of time not a single match, it just goes far to show that majority of pple playin this game just report for the sake of it, . .. . and those who try to knock sense into them get reported unfortunately, that's how this works. .. .. . SO basically, only play with friends , else just take time out rather than have to play solo, to save urself the agony. . . . . I have lasted over 3 months now , only playing with friends. . .. and I never care about matchmaking, and my win rate is close to 60% , and when I used to solo queue, I never even reached close to 55% ever . .
                            Thats the thing tho i dont have 4 other friends who play this game all a lot. i probably play this game maybe as much as 4-8 hours a day (i only get like 4 hours of sleep lol) also let alone find 4 other players at my skill level. and yes ive been solo queueing for the most part and somehow have like 51.50 winrate and it is always 50/50 you have to be smoking that good to think thats wrong. lemme play with u lol. i need to start finding good players. that is if youre a good player
                            Last edited by Djdkdjdkdjdk; 06-26-2013, 09:35 PM.
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                            • Originally posted by NokiaSE View Post
                              What in the world made you think Valve is focusing on adding stuffs into their store and don't care anything else?
                              1st of all Valve has been adding stuff into the store at ridiculous prices
                              2nd of all I never said they don't care about anything else
                              3rd of all look at cyborgmatt's blog some of the cosmetics take up more than half a blog entry
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                              • Originally posted by Djdkdjdkdjdk View Post
                                Who the most important part is, are the players that care. The players that come on the dev and post everyday. The players the keep up with threads and posts. Like you, you are a part of the most important part of the community. Your post, negative or positive shows that you care. We ARE the ones that are the most important
                                Except for me though right?
                                Originally posted by fletcher
                                Just to clarify, there was never any "win rate" calculation. Ever. It is true that a goal of matchmaking is to make even teams. The matchmaker also will raise your Elo and try to put you in players of equivalent skill, which indirectly tries to get the win rate to 50%. However, it has never looked at your historical win rate and put you in a game where it knew that you were expected to lose.
                                Is every post on this forum about the Dunning-Kruger effect?

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