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ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

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  • #31
    Originally posted by JimmyJames View Post
    As to the influx of feeders, I have noticed it too - well as they posted 60% less people are quitting. That 60%, I would speculate is made largely up of these feeders.
    This seems reasonable.

    New players are coming into Dota. Because of the mute system, they don't just quit immediately when a toxic player abuses them for essentially being new to the game. And they are still playing. So people are having more experiences of playing with new/ignorant players.

    Is this a bad thing?
    Originally posted by fletcher
    Just to clarify, there was never any "win rate" calculation. Ever. It is true that a goal of matchmaking is to make even teams. The matchmaker also will raise your Elo and try to put you in players of equivalent skill, which indirectly tries to get the win rate to 50%. However, it has never looked at your historical win rate and put you in a game where it knew that you were expected to lose.
    Is every post on this forum about the Dunning-Kruger effect?

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by erik-the-red View Post
      This is Eric Tams claiming back in March 2012 that the MM algorithm doesn't force a 50/50 winrate. I don't believe that, but it remains that he said otherwise.
      Thanks a lot Erik. But why wouldn't you believe. He had no reason to lie, he could not answer.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by erik-the-red View Post
        This is Eric Tams claiming back in March 2012 that the MM algorithm doesn't force a 50/50 winrate. I don't believe that, but it remains that he said otherwise.
        If it's even vaguely related to ELO then it won't "force" 50/50, that's just what you'll trend towards as the system tries to match you against/with people of a similar skill level. In a balanced game (everyone of the same skill level) the odds of winning would be... 50/50

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        • #34
          useless effort bro, move on

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          • #35
            Devs please.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
              I read the OP, and it seemed to be reasonably well written, although the 'wall-o-text' style didn't help that. Of course, you say you don't like rude and disrespectful people in the OP, but how would you characterise what you've written here?

              SMH
              How am I being rude and disrespectful? In no way was I trying to insult you. All I was saying is that you posted without actually reading the OP and that you were probably trolling me with your ignorant post. I simply characterize what I've written as constructive criticism. I have nothing against you so don't be offended.
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              • #37
                Matchmaking needs tuning indeed. Gabe said himself that MM is bad and they're working on that.

                Mute system is ok and have nothing against it.

                Report system is not that bad either. Maybe 4-5 reports per week would be better.

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                • #38
                  it's so easy to make a boot and auto mute .. but for this kind of players what can we do ? 218863862 look at this match id plz and say something after IN VERY HIGH MATCH cmon valve .. multimilion company and u can't hire some ppl to look at the reports and take actions behind a set of rulles !! cmoooooooonnn is that fucking hard?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Agree with OP.

                    Unfortunately I doubt that Valve will listen.

                    All the issues listed here have been raised many times over.
                    Still they spend their resources coding a punishment system..... (the same type that was used by cavemen)
                    If this energy was put into a better match making system the amount of problems in the game would decrease drastically.

                    Well I guess its their game.
                    DOTA was built by the community now Valve decides to ignore the community.
                    I guess they know better.
                    Replace the mute system with a positive reinforcement system

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Rirekon View Post
                      If it's even vaguely related to ELO then it won't "force" 50/50, that's just what you'll trend towards as the system tries to match you against/with people of a similar skill level. In a balanced game (everyone of the same skill level) the odds of winning would be... 50/50
                      A working system would have a true 50/50 winrate. But having a 50/50 winrate doesn't mean the system is working.

                      I won this game two days ago. But I'm still complaining because of what happened.

                      I checked the games played (in game, not in Dotabuff) of my teammates, and I saw that the Death Prophet and the Shadow Shaman were very close to me while the Doom and the Sniper both only played one-fourth of the games we had played. On the other team, it seemed that the Luna and Mirana had played about as many games as the Sniper and the Doom; I can't remember the rest, but they may have been close to DP, SS, and me.

                      I guess strictly speaking, the teams were "even," but you can't tell me that games like this won't be coinflips because whoever got matched with the worse newer players will likely lose.
                      We need a player review system like Overwatch for DotA 2. Get real people to judge communication abuse, intentional skill abuse, and intentional feeding.



                      merci fenix

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        All stats are farmable.

                        The only solution to the match making problem is a diversity of leagues managed by the players. Top down solutions are all destined for failure, criticism and frustration.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          With mute system I agree. I get muted right now probably because I failed at one game but +3 team mates failed even more. They just for some reason didn't liked that I picked that hero and put all blame on me. Said nothing to them, didn't argue but get muted. All other games from last mute was fine. Just really sucks that only 3 days I had chance right now to play not being muted. People like to mute if someone plays bad.

                          Being muted, takes a lot fun away at game. Players might seriously begin to leave Dota 2 because of getting no fun because of being muted.

                          -----------------
                          Getting matched by performance actually kinda bad, better would be matched by win rate. At least people would look differently to players. They would know how good someone plays having 55% win rate, 60% and of course 65%-70% win rates having players would have because of playing at parties. As achieving 70% win rate is impossible alone at Dota.
                          -----------------

                          Talking about your opinion. Agree with everything you said.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by erik-the-red View Post
                            A working system would have a true 50/50 winrate.
                            In a perfect world, yes. The world isn't perfect. A given individual's skill level will fluctuate based on a number of variables (personal well being, team composition, character used, etc...) which will cause them to adjust up and down in rating slightly. Even then it's only 100% effective if the player only players games using the matchmaking system, ever. Any games played outside of the system (tournaments, practice games, hell even dota 1) will cause the player's win/loss and/or skill level to fluctuate in ways which will throw the system off.
                            For instance;
                            If you spent a few days practicing your micro in Dota 1 (or really any RTS) your actual skill level will no longer match your ELO rating. As a result you'll likely have a bit of a win streak before the system compensates for your improvement.


                            Originally posted by erik-the-red View Post
                            But having a 50/50 winrate doesn't mean the system is working.
                            Strawman.

                            Originally posted by erik-the-red View Post
                            I won this game two days ago. But I'm still complaining because of what happened.

                            I checked the games played (in game, not in Dotabuff) of my teammates, and I saw that the Death Prophet and the Shadow Shaman were very close to me while the Doom and the Sniper both only played one-fourth of the games we had played. On the other team, it seemed that the Luna and Mirana had played about as many games as the Sniper and the Doom; I can't remember the rest, but they may have been close to DP, SS, and me.

                            I guess strictly speaking, the teams were "even," but you can't tell me that games like this won't be coinflips because whoever got matched with the worse newer players will likely lose.
                            The system will account for you having a lower "ranked" team, that's what a team based ELO does. ELO is NOT tracking pure win/loss, it accounts for relative skill levels of all parties involved.

                            Also; unless you take a cross section of at least 1000 games you don't have anything statistically relevant. Showing a single game (or even a handful) doesn't even being to constitute evidence.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Rirekon View Post
                              In a perfect world, yes. The world isn't perfect. A given individual's skill level will fluctuate based on a number of variables (personal well being, team composition, character used, etc...) which will cause them to adjust up and down in rating slightly. Even then it's only 100% effective if the player only players games using the matchmaking system, ever. Any games played outside of the system (tournaments, practice games, hell even dota 1) will cause the player's win/loss and/or skill level to fluctuate in ways which will throw the system off.
                              For instance;
                              If you spent a few days practicing your micro in Dota 1 (or really any RTS) your actual skill level will no longer match your ELO rating. As a result you'll likely have a bit of a win streak before the system compensates for your improvement.
                              Lol, you talk about how 50/50 is "what you'll trend towards as the system tries to match you against/with people of a similar skill level" and then back off from that with "the world isn't perfect."

                              Strawman.
                              You argued in favor of the MM system "working." So, no straw man here.

                              The system will account for you having a lower "ranked" team, that's what a team based ELO does. ELO is NOT tracking pure win/loss, it accounts for relative skill levels of all parties involved.
                              This goes back to what I said: "I guess strictly speaking, the teams were 'even,' but you can't tell me that games like this won't be coinflips because whoever got matched with the worse newer players will likely lose."
                              We need a player review system like Overwatch for DotA 2. Get real people to judge communication abuse, intentional skill abuse, and intentional feeding.



                              merci fenix

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Thank you sir .. respect+

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