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Show the mana bar on all heroes!

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  • Originally posted by Pandamonium View Post
    this. valve is a company, they want to make money with dota2. will mana bars stop any of those that are against them from playing the game? no, since most of them have been playing dota1 for a long time and they wouldnt stop playing because of mana bars. will mana bars help to attract a larger audience? YES, since manabars are in both competitors games(hon and lol) and players coming from both games will demand/have demanded this feature, and it also makes the game easier to grasp for noobs, thus creating a larger player base and generating more income for valve.

    tl:dr; valve will add mana bars anyway if they care about increasing player base. (same goes for forfeit function btw)
    Don't care about forfeit. Care about mana bars. If added there will be rage and lots of veterans will quit the game and stick to dota 1. I'm pretty sure that's not what valve wants. Sure as hell it's not what icefrog wants.

    Mana bars MUST NOT be implemented. They are a BALANCE FACTOR and hence they should not be discussed here this is no mere HUD discussion. Balance discussions don't belong here. They belong at playdota.com

    If you don't believe it makes the game easier that's your problem but any of you guys that are asking for it are doing so because you believe it would make a difference in your playstyle. Hence it is a balance decision. DOESN'T BELONG HERE.

    Seriously, what's wrong with these folks?

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    • @Scorror was gonna reply to the guy 3 comments above but my key wont work, sorry bout that

      If they are really going to stick to what they said before that they will just copy the whole dota 1 with some improvements, then I highly doubt that mana bars will be added.
      It have been discussed for years and never got implemented.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by kevil4613 View Post
        @Scorror was gonna reply to the guy 3 comments above but my key wont work, sorry bout that

        If they are really going to stick to what they said before that they will just copy the whole dota 1 with some improvements, then I highly doubt that mana bars will be added.
        It have been discussed for years and never got implemented.
        To be fair, it's been discussed behind doors that aren't Valve's. The development team is different and said team probably has different goals, tools and ideals. Dismissing it as though it's not worth discussion, regardless of what you support is folly.

        Originally posted by Boh View Post
        Mana bars MUST NOT be implemented. They are a BALANCE FACTOR and hence they should not be discussed here this is no mere HUD discussion. Balance discussions don't belong here. They belong at playdota.com
        But it's not a balance factor. No matter how you choose to spin it, it's going to come back to the scenario of, "If my opponent doesn't check mana, X can happen differently". At some point, it degrades into a usability issue because the supposed role it plays in balance only actually matters if a given player is unaware of an opponents mana.

        Whether or not mana is visible at all would be approaching something that resembled a balance issue (Although even then, one could make an argument that suggests that the actual effectiveness of a given hero is not changed by available mana, only perceived effectiveness is changed and that is arguably not a balance issue at all.)

        --

        It's saying something like MBS or 12 unit selection limit is used to balance Starcraft:BW. Of course it's not! It doesn't matter if you are Savior or some newbie, the races still have the same potential regardless of these mechanics existing. You could probably make an argument that certain races are easier or more difficult to control because of this, but again, the maximum effectiveness of the races remains unchanged, and that's where I think people are getting confused, because when they say 'balance' they mean, 'mechanical hurdle'. Now, in Starcraft's case especially, being able to manage these hurdles is an important part of the game, but whether not that represents positive change for the game is a whole different discussion.
        Last edited by Kautzman; 02-13-2012, 03:00 AM.

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        • Originally posted by Kautzman View Post
          ....
          +1

          Comment


          • +1 (on team heroes)
            -1 (on all heroes) playing without manabars is so much better!


            Infact, there should be hardcore version where you don't have healthbars xD

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            • Originally posted by Kautzman View Post
              But it's not a balance factor. No matter how you choose to spin it, it's going to come back to the scenario of, "If my opponent doesn't check mana, X can happen differently". At some point, it degrades into a usability issue because the supposed role it plays in balance only actually matters if a given player is unaware of an opponents mana.
              Frequently happens at every level of play - beginners, intermediate, high level pubs, and professionals.

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              • Originally posted by Sol Invictus View Post
                Frequently happens at every level of play - beginners, intermediate, high level pubs, and professionals.
                And never once has it contributed to the fun I was having in the game. Only makes me feel frustrated or like I'm playing against noobs.
                Change has kept DotA alive, evolving, and improving since 2002. And now DotA has an entire new engine at it's disposal, with infinite new capabilities.

                So why are there so many DotA fundamentalists/conservatives that oppose new features, options, and information?

                Embrace the change.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by AlphaOfUrOmega View Post
                  And never once has it contributed to the fun I was having in the game. Only makes me feel frustrated or like I'm playing against noobs.
                  Doesn't mean it doesn't affect balance/gameplay.

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                  • Originally posted by Sol Invictus View Post
                    Frequently happens at every level of play - beginners, intermediate, high level pubs, and professionals.
                    The burden of proof lies on you sir and talk is cheap. There exist many hours of professional footage. Find me one example where the lack of overhead mana bars has mattered in a professional level game.

                    Originally posted by Sol Invictus View Post
                    Doesn't mean it doesn't affect balance/gameplay.
                    It's like you didn't even read the post I made not 5 replies ago...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Kautzman View Post
                      The burden of proof lies on you sir and talk is cheap. There exist many hours of professional footage. Find me one example where the lack of overhead mana bars has mattered in a professional level game.
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0mI5MH1Bls
                      2009, ex-professional player playing in a pub. (The fact that it's a pub isn't relevant since the video focuses on just the 1v1 in mid lane and the opponent is reasonably skilled.) He selects the Medusa constantly to check on her mana. See 5:23, 11:04.

                      How does this affect gameplay? Well, the fact that he even does it (checks mana, that is). If mana bars were present, he would need a lower APM to achieve the same effect.

                      And that's just one example that took me 1 minute to find, look at pretty much any video featuring a 1st person POV of a pro player, especially ones that are instructional, and they will constantly select enemy heroes to check on their items, mana, etc.

                      It's like you didn't even read the post I made not 5 replies ago...
                      I read it fully. I disagreed.
                      Last edited by Sol Invictus; 02-13-2012, 03:46 PM. Reason: grammar

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                      • http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=682
                        http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=9856

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