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  • #31
    Originally posted by Typhox View Post
    so 274 of 394 HP was which proportion again?
    The numbers are only useful if you look directly at them and take the time to think about them, while you can estimate your HP with the bars even when you only see them. Well, you could. Now, it got a lot harder to estimate.
    If you want to question the use of HP bars in general, this thread is the wrong one for you.
    I don't see how "don't need that bar" conflicts with "make the bar smaller" anyway.
    it takes time for u to see if u have 200 hp?? cause if u expect to have 394 hp(total)and have 150hp(curenly and propably die one spell) and cause in the bar its like half u would stay?? i dont get u guys i didnt have problem with the old hud i dont have with the new i dont have eather with the older bars and not now...its just a look. how can it be hard?.
    dota u dont just go random oh the bar its 3/4 lets go to battle u have to look the actual numbers...

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by WithOutNam3 View Post
      dota u dont just go random oh the bar its 3/4 lets go to battle u have to look the actual numbers...
      No.
      We're talking about several auto-attacks against you from their carry. So for example it has the first 3 seconds 114-121 damage per attack, then the next seconds 166-169. You have 1267 HP. How long will you survive? Don't forget to calculate your Armor into this.

      I want to see someone who is actually that good with calculating that he can see the effective damage done by the enemy by just seeing "I had 1956 HP before, now I have 1799 HP, so it does 157 damage per attack!", especially since with pure numbers it is pretty much impossible to notice the velocity of tendencies (attack doing 10% more damage per hit). That's not how estimation works.
      A bar however, is like a moving train or car. Given some experience, you can very easily predict what will happen, not knowing the actual numbers, with varying speed and even acceleration! It's extremely easy. That's how estimation works.

      If you want to hit your enemy with sunstrike, you could as well just see his movespeed and then calculate where he is going to go - or let your brain do all the stuff and just estimate where he will go to now.

      Comment


      • #33
        Firstly,there is a difference in precise numbers and the in "semi-rough" estimations.
        But numbers are way to harded,so most players rely on estimations for a tough calls.

        I'm gonna take some time here,to explain how the complete "hp bar" system works:

        Logic no.1:
        If u want to be as precise as u can be in estimating hp based on hp bar,u firstly need to know to numbers.So u can't tell "u dont need to know number in order to use HP bar".
        Yes u do.U have to know.Why?
        Well,u need to know the "scale" of bar.

        Ex.1:

        Ex.2:


        So,if u only "judge" based on hp bar,without numbers,3/4 hp Blood, in both cases is gonna "seem" like he has same hp.And in first case its gonna have a 450 hp,and in second case he's gonna have about 1300 hp.And 450 is not even near the 1300.

        Thats why there is a number.
        First thing u have to know is a number of full HP,since that number gives u a sense of scale on bar.Since that number represents a 100% of bar.Without that number,a bar is useless.
        So u can't go sun striking just based on bars,some1 can still have 1/10 of hp bar,but survive the sun strike.U have to know numbers first.
        Thats the reason why u have to,on regular periods,do the number check on HP bar.So u don't lose track of scale.

        And u all had those situations,its when after a 20,25 minutes of a game a jungers comes out on you,and u go and engage him,and find yourself killed.Then u check his items,his stats and go like "wtf,lycan has * & * this early!!?!?!,omg"

        Logic no.2:
        The bigger the bar,the more precise is the estimation!
        This pretty much contradicts your requests "make the bar smaller,i can't use it efficiently any more"
        Why is this so?
        Well,in early game,when heroes are mostly with 500-700 hp,its isnt a problem.But,since every game has a "late game"phase,and since that phase is more important for a win/lose scenario,lets take a look at some numbers.

        Ex.1:

        Ex.2:


        As u can see,if there is some enemy who deals 1/8 of your hp as DMG,thats about 220 dmg,its a lot easier for your brain to visually grasp it based on upper bigger bar,then on bottom smaller bar.
        The smaller the piece of hp bar,the harder it is to "multiply" it in order to get a precise sense of how much hp was taken with it.
        And this is just a 1,7k hp blood.
        Imagine a 2,5k or 3k hero,who loses 1/8 of hp in 1 attack.Thats a whopping 300-350 dmg per hit,and the smaller the bar,its gonna be harder to figure it out.In fact,in those high hp situations,at least before,when the bar was smaller,no one actually could really grasp the numbers involved.They just measured how fast the bar goes from 100% to 50%,and based on that they did the further estimations.That was because it was too difficult to multiply those little 1/8 pieces 4x to make a 50%.And 50% is the easiest number u calculate without even thinking about it.Rest of it,like 20,30,40,60,70,80% are always some estimations that go + - 100,150,200hp in mistake.50% estimation is always precise in about +-30,40 hp thus making it the most used hp bar refference

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by 4evra View Post
          First thing u have to know is a number of full HP,since that number gives u a sense of scale on bar.Since that number represents a 100% of bar.Without that number,a bar is useless.
          So u can't go sun striking just based on bars,some1 can still have 1/10 of hp bar,but survive the sun strike.U have to know numbers first.
          Thats the reason why u have to,on regular periods,do the number check on HP bar.So u don't lose track of scale.
          No, you don't have to know the numbers. You have a bar above your hero and above your enemies. You seem to forget that THESE bars have a segmentation with lines of different thickness. You don't read the numbers. You just see how many of the lines he has. Again, you don't COUNT the lines. You just see them.

          I also don't agree with your second logic. Yes, mathematically it is better to have it as big as possible, but again, this is not how estimation works. You have to see your HP fast. The longer the bar is the longer it takes you to estimate. It's like playing on a big screen. If you're sitting right in front of it, you lose a lot of your awareness. The smaller the screen, the more information come to your focus point. Although you can "see" your whole screen the whole time, the area that you can actually clearly see is very limited. That means, to find out how many HP I have, my eyes have to go from the left to the right of the bar just to judge the length of the bar, before I can find an estimate. The longer the bar is, the more my eyes have to move, the more difficult it is to see my HP.
          And I think the bar exceeded the limit with the last update.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by WithOutNam3 View Post
            y i call this useless feedback cause i just said to u first all ppl crying about the bars are too small and now u saying its too big...
            And I'm saying its how its suppose to work, first it was to small then we complain, now its to big and we complain again, then they change it again until we find a perfect ratio.

            @4evra I dont agree with you, like Typnox said if we need to look from left to right to see full bar than its too big, Some of you may not realized it since you are playing on smaller monitors. Maybe that was the case in previous state and smaller hp was unbearable to most since the majority plays on smaller monitors. I believe that something in the middle would be acceptable to wider range of monitors.
            Work in progress, feedback appreciated

            Comment


            • #36
              Its not size of the monitor.Its resolution

              Anyway..
              So,your main reasons are:
              -bar is now too long,it takes focusing and looking left/right to see it all
              -we want visible bars,not number,we don't want to have a "scale sense"

              Bolded one is the MAIN reason.

              I hereby declare ur problem solved!
              Picture > http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9...0521290108.png

              So,u have small bars,with very visible segments,and its right on the middle of screen,u don't have to focus on any other part of screen in order to "read it" efficiently.

              Now,there is the same thing on hud,just englarged.
              So there is even a choice,if some1 likes smaller bars,he can have those hp over heroes bars,and if some1 wants to read from bigger bars,he can do it from HUD.

              I beleive this can satisfy both sides,u and me ?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by 4evra View Post
                Now,there is the same thing on hud,just englarged.
                So there is even a choice,if some1 likes smaller bars,he can have those hp over heroes bars,and if some1 wants to read from bigger bars,he can do it from HUD.
                Sad that you can only see your heroes HP bar when you have the hero on your screen.
                When I aim Sunstrike, TP (or later Sunray), or any other long range skill I am unable to see my HP with that bar.
                All I said is make the bar more usable by giving the possibility to use it as a bar rather than just looking at the numbers. I mean, that's what it is for.
                And no, I'm no way talking about resolution, I talk about SIZE. The width the bar has in CENTIMETERS. If I posted a line here that is too long for this layout so you'd have to scroll it, you would easily find out yourself how hard it is to divide something into parts of a certain percentage, when you can't see the whole thing at once.

                You guys are all saying that we don't need that bar, so I understand you that we could then remove it eventually.

                Comment


                • #38
                  And why would u need to know your hp when casting a sun strike on other side of the map?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by 4evra View Post
                    And why would u need to know your hp when casting a sun strike on other side of the map?
                    To know if my hero gets attacked by (neutral) creeps or by enemies or by the tower?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by 4evra View Post
                      Its not size of the monitor.Its resolution
                      Size of the monitor dictates the resolution you are gonna use. All resolutions have hp bar taking 1/3, but 1/3 of the 24 inch monitor is more then 1/3 of the 15 inch.
                      Work in progress, feedback appreciated

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        we are going way off with this one
                        probb because we gave FOR and AGAINST oppinions,now we wait for others to say their thoughts

                        Originally posted by Typhox View Post
                        To know if my hero gets attacked by (neutral) creeps or by enemies or by the tower?
                        There is redish color all across the edges of screen if u get attacked.U just cant miss it

                        Originally posted by Panter_d17 View Post
                        Size of the monitor dictates the resolution you are gonna use. All resolutions have hp bar taking 1/3, but 1/3 of the 24 inch monitor is more then 1/3 of the 15 inch.
                        Yes,1/3 of 24 inch is bigger than 1/3 of 15inch.
                        But,the scale is the same,no matter what resolution it is.
                        If your HP bars is 3x bigger,minimap is 3x bigger too.Entire hud is 3x bigger.
                        Its not like that only HP bar gets larger as resolutions go up,and rest stays the same

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I agree, it is too long now to get a quick overview off your hp since I actually need to move my eyes to see the whole bar.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            It doesn't really seem too wide on a 20-inch monitor (1600x900). All I need to do is center my vision on the numbers and my peripheral vision fills in the rest.
                            “The shoe that fits one person pinches another; there is no recipe for living that suits all cases.”
                            ― Carl Jung

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              It's fine as it is. People will only listen to you if you babble on about how it supposedly lowers the skill ceiling or something.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                its fine now!

                                Comment

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