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POLL: Show health bar of heros on top bar and indicate low hp warning

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  • mr_9sky
    replied
    I am not a pro player so but I can see Panter_d17's point of view too.
    You have valid points bro.

    Leave a comment:


  • Panter_d17
    replied
    It does not make Chen play easier, he was supposed to be played with that info available all the time and that is the case in high level games. So in pubs he is nerfed because of the lack of communication and not used properly. 95% of Chan Mirana ulties are used in a bad time because of this or are used 2-3 times in entire game. I cant spend time typing in chat telling Chen to heal me while Im trying to escape, if we where in proper team I would just say that and he will pop up his ulty without any map awareness needed at all. Game should run the same as they do in high level matches. Saying that this will prolong games because their ulties will save lives is stupid because they are meant to do that and they do that in tournaments and games still last less then an hour. As for the Zeus doesn't this help him as well? You don't see the enemies hp bar but if you see 3 friendly bars going down there's a fight going on atm and you can react faster and use your ultimate without someone needing to ask for it. In the same manner this will increase proper plays of Nature's Prophet, Clockwerk, Ancient Apparition, Spirit Breaker ...

    Leave a comment:


  • mk07ki
    replied
    Originally posted by k0n View Post
    But let's return to the topic: Seeing your teammate's health bar is much like seeing the entire map. It decreases the skill required for map awareness. It decreases communication. It decreases skill. It makes the game easier for a few heroes while making the game harder for a lot of heroes. I believe it shouldn't be implemented.
    You keep saying how it helps with the communication, but in reality the way people communicate with each other is a massive joke. Playing with strangers is a game of luck, you get all kinds of people; people that don't pay attention to anything, or say/call/ping anything at all. So, I don't see how it helps since the communication between people is in such a sad state right now.

    Now, before someone throws a rock at me and says "PLAY WITH FRIENDS", is it even relevant here? I mean, when I'm playing with/as Chen or Mirana in a team of friends, do I even need these health bars when me or them can just say a word? No, I don't. A team with proper communication would be unaffected by the suggestion, while all other games would get a more basic way to communicate (they're also a more basic games when you think about it). Hell, you don't even need to be verbal to convey something to your team, just look at how much you can say with a simple ping.

    Just because your teammate doesn't say anything doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to play as a team and help him if possible, just because you decided to play a pub doesn't mean that you should expect a half-assed experience.

    Leave a comment:


  • mr_9sky
    replied
    Interesting argument, kOn. Thanks.

    How about the low hp warning on allies' hero portrait?

    Leave a comment:


  • k0n
    replied
    Yeah, it did decreased communication at first. But did it make easier? No.

    The ability to see ultimates was implemented about a year ago in DotA 1. All it did was to determine if the time for clashing is right or not. It prevented blunders and increased the game level during the clashing phase of the game. However, it didn't change the metagame since both sides can tell if their teammates where ready to cast their skills or not. No hero was at a disadvantage. No player is forced to have an easier game play since you have to play against teams who also know when their ultimates are ready.

    What you have here is a more spectacular usage of ultimates. You can see more Blackholes casted on cluters of players and Ravages being pulled off while Epicenter is pulses the ground. Things that make your eyes want to know what happens next and make your heart feel the pressure of both sides.

    Now all that mattered was where would the ultimates should be casted? Who should initiate? Where should you clash? What happened later is that teams have an increase of communication. It help improve big clashes and improved teamwork for both sides of the game. Did it make things easier for the players? Not at all since both sides have this advantage.

    In Dota 2, there's already a lot of information given about your teammates compared to DotA 1. Health/Mana regen, mana bars on your teammates heroes, what the runes are, cool down for all skills, and even who is using the courier. All of this was given, but it didn't change the metagame a whole lot because it didn't matter too much. It prevented confusion but it didn't decrease the skill level required to play this game. You still had to click on your teammates, look at the minimap and look at your chat. The skill level remains the same as before. Dota was suppose to be that hard.

    But let's return to the topic: Seeing your teammate's health bar is much like seeing the entire map. It decreases the skill required for map awareness. It decreases communication. It decreases skill. It makes the game easier for a few heroes while making the game harder for a lot of heroes. I believe it shouldn't be implemented.
    Last edited by k0n; 05-21-2012, 01:06 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • mr_9sky
    replied
    k0n, how about the green gem below hero portraits showing ultimates ready or not?

    Based on your arguement, in that same vein, Does that not make communication less and make the game 'easier' ?
    Since u don't have to ask ur allies if their ults are ready.

    Leave a comment:


  • chojje
    replied
    Originally posted by k0n View Post
    Think of this. Zeus players, will need to watch the map twice as hard to find a low HP opponent if there's a Chen with this feature. Suddenly Zeus drops a tier. Chen players will get an easier game play. Zeus will work his ass off to quickly assess the entire map for low HP heroes twice as fast compared to that Chen player. Another example: now what about those who are fighting against Mirana with this feature? Those with invisibility, or that could blink or basically any hero that could gank will have a harder time because now Mirana players can be more trigger happy with their ult. Suddenly this game becomes favors more defensive games and we're back to the 6.69 era where most games end at around the 60 minute mark, clashes appear later on in the game, people farm forever and games are incredibly boring to watch until the 40 minute mark.

    You need to force players to look more on the minimap. You need to force people to communicate and to have teammwork. Adding this feature will decrease the communication because there's no need to talk to your teammates anymore if they can see your HP without moving their camera. Chen and Mirana players shouldn't have this feature because they need to be there near their teammates before a clash begins. They need to be forced to learn map awareness and communication like every player. No exceptions.
    Well spoken.

    Leave a comment:


  • k0n
    replied
    Think of this. Zeus players, will need to watch the map twice as hard to find a low HP opponent if there's a Chen with this feature. Suddenly Zeus drops a tier. Chen players will get an easier game play. Zeus will work his ass off to quickly assess the entire map for low HP heroes twice as fast compared to that Chen player. Another example: now what about those who are fighting against Mirana with this feature? Those with invisibility, or that could blink or basically any hero that could gank will have a harder time because now Mirana players can be more trigger happy with their ult. Suddenly this game becomes favors more defensive games and we're back to the 6.69 era where most games end at around the 60 minute mark, clashes appear later on in the game, people farm forever and games are incredibly boring to watch until the 40 minute mark.

    You need to force players to look more on the minimap. You need to force people to communicate and to have teammwork. Adding this feature will decrease the communication because there's no need to talk to your teammates anymore if they can see your HP without moving their camera. Chen and Mirana players shouldn't have this feature because they need to be there near their teammates before a clash begins. They need to be forced to learn map awareness and communication like every player. No exceptions.
    Last edited by k0n; 05-20-2012, 04:58 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • mk07ki
    replied
    Originally posted by k0n View Post
    If you add this, only Chen and Mirana will benefit from it which changes the metagame a little.
    I think people should read the post I made earlier about Chen, same thing applies to Mirana.

    Originally posted by mk07ki View Post
    I don't think that it would buff anyone directly or indirectly, you're saying that being able to see the amount of health your teammates have would buff Chen, but what about high level players? What if you have a team of 5 players and they're all on Skype or whatever, they have good communication between each other and are able to call out for Chens heal, is he buffed in that particular situation or maybe he's just used to his full potential? If we're gonna think of it this way, then there's two versions of Chen, a gimped one and a normal one. Funnily enough, the normal one wouldn't be affected by the suggestion, at all.

    Now, in my opinion, people think of it the wrong way. They think that would make the game easier, but what exactly would it change to make it "easier"? It wouldn't change any mechanics yet people would start to behave differently in certain situations, and I don't think that different equals easy in this case. It changes the way people communicate with each other in games that have weak teamwork or no teamwork whatsoever (think pubs with a silent team, no mics, no calls, etc), but it doesn't really change anything for people that already communicate with each other.

    The suggestion would make the game easier the same way that Skype or voice chat does, it would allow better teamwork. It would allow more inexperienced/lower level players to perform better when playing with strangers (playing in a setting where the teamwork is lacking) while the higher level players would be untouched. It's a no loss situation unless you're biased or hate new players.

    Leave a comment:


  • mr_9sky
    replied
    Thanks for the comments guys, both positive and negative. Especially comments that were constructive.

    Just my 2cents here, I kind of feel those reasons for thumbing it down are reasons from thinking too much and overcomplicating the issue here... a lot of 'if's...


    If your eyes are suddenly floating on the top, looking at the HP bar, then you have a higher chance of messing up during the clash....
    Last edited by mr_9sky; 05-20-2012, 09:59 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • eridian
    replied
    i don't sure...

    Leave a comment:


  • slugonice
    replied
    Thumbs up!

    For those who don't want it, they can turn it off.

    Leave a comment:


  • k0n
    replied
    -1

    If you add this, only Chen and Mirana will benefit from it which changes the metagame a little. Most support players that use items like Soul Urn or Meka can easily tell when to use it by looking at the ganks/clashes and it's not very hard. The distance of casting Soul Urn is large and you can easily tell when to use it where your eyes should be focused on the situation. Meka is used during a clash. If your eyes are suddenly floating on the top, looking at the HP bar, then you have a higher chance of messing up during the clash. People without healing items, wouldn't use much information of the HP bar except when someone is dying. However, you can easily tell if that's going to happen by looking at the situation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unfawkable
    replied
    What is people's problem with having more accessible information? There isn't a single reason NOT to want this as a feature, forced or not!

    Leave a comment:


  • mr_9sky
    replied
    Originally posted by slowreflex View Post
    I've added this to Common Suggestions.
    Thanks a lot slowreflex!

    Leave a comment:

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