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Ability type; what BKB blocks shouldn't be a secret

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  • #16
    I agree with DarkLite. Sure learning this stuff is essential to playing Dota, however hiding this information from the user is rather pointless. It might have been very obvious to people playing WC3 DotA because they most likely played WC3 and WC3 DotA for a long time and thus have memorized this stuff from years of experience. However, newer players will find it exceedingly hard to pin point and learn all this information simply because a lot of it is just bluntly missing from tool-tips.

    Mini-stuns not being listed is a pretty obvious issue. Ability Type and Damage Type are two different things, yet newer players have no way of even knowing that without doing extra-curricular reading. It's why Naga Siren is so frustrating to newer players. Because they still get Ensnared while in BKB and still pop BKB while Ensnared to no effect. DarkLite said it best:

    Putting this information ingame wouldn't turn noobs into pros and wouldn't give players information that they're not supposed to know, but it would reduce a lot of the pointless screwups in low-tier games, increase the quality of play slightly and overall make for a better and more professional game experience.
    This ain't ova.

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    • #17
      A simple solution would be something like "This skill bypass magic-immunity" in the tooltip and add a type :

      "This skill bypass magic-immunity : both damage and stun(slow)"
      "This skill bypass magic-immunity : damage only"
      "This skill bypass magic-immunity : stun only"

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      • #18
        Originally posted by innociv View Post
        I do think HoN has TOO much text in many tool tips. I got lost in them when I tried it.
        But Dota2 has too little, lacking certain details. Whether BKB blocks it or not is VERY important to know without having to try it and see or check a wiki.
        Like it doesn't note the rate at which Cold Feet ticks, it's not once per second.
        The developers probably knew that they are putting alot of information into a limited space, which is why they brilliantly changed the crucial information to a different colour, immediately allowing you to discard less-crucial information. Take bristleback's quill spray for example:

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        • #19
          Originally posted by infiniteX3logy View Post
          The developers probably knew that they are putting alot of information into a limited space, which is why they brilliantly changed the crucial information to a different colour, immediately allowing you to discard less-crucial information. Take bristleback's quill spray for example:

          That's textbook usability for you. Every unit of extra information (fluff) competes with relevant information. Easiest method of separating the two is emphasis (in some form - different colour, weight, size, associated symbols).
          Mana cost, radius and duration (which are crucial an need to be scanned very quick) are outside the block of text and greatly separated.

          HoN are definitely "doin' it rite".
          One world is much like another

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          • #20
            Well just something needs to be done. Anything. The tooltips aren't sufficient now.

            Another thing is that Brewmaster's ultimate doesn't say that the split units are ancients. And magic immune ancients are immune to far more things than magic immune heroes are. Blackhole, for example, doesn't work on magic immune ancients.

            It doesn't need to say everything. It doesn't need to say "this goes through magic immunity" for some skill, but it needs to give an indication that it's some type of ability that does in fact go through magic immunity. And Brew's ult doesn't need to say you can't be black holed, but it needs to say their ancients so when you know the fundamentals like that, that magic immune ancients are more immune, that being an ancient when split does mean black hole doesn't effect you.

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            • #21
              Tooltips MUST be more detailed. I know everything by heart but I can see my friends struggling to understand the "problem" each time. There seem to be NO algorithm on how they can find the answer. Some of the tooltips proposed here can easily solve the majority of the problems.
              If you don't have an intelligent reply for me, don't bother I will shred your non sense to pieces.

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              • #22
                For all those who want tooltips to have more detail, I suggest bumping these threads.

                http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=51921
                http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=55147

                First one deals with individual heroes' tooltips not being detailed enough, second one (started by me) suggests categorising skills into types.

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                • #23
                  It's a fossil of wc3 mechanics. If you'd design a game today you probably wouldn't create a hundred exceptions.

                  The only way to learn is to get familiar with skill mechanics and what each spell does. That helps in other ways too, so it's not that bad in the end.

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                  • #24
                    The 2nd thread is exactly what I said here? It needs to list the ability type or something, not just damage type.

                    I agree with the first thread too. Lots of detail is missing, but I think an indication of whether magic immunity blocks it or not is the most important detail.

                    It is NOT a fossil of WC3 mechanics. Icefrog did this on purpose. There are many ways, like with Naga's net, that he could have made them NOT blocked by BKB. He chose to have it this way. Tooltips just need to make these mechanics more clear.
                    Last edited by innociv; 09-23-2012, 02:29 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Tooltip issues is a better place to put this topic, and that's why I started the second thread there.

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