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Hero Cards

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  • Hero Cards

    Recently I was checking the hero cards and the stats given to some of them have some major and many of them have minor mistakes. Well, thats a slight detail but means alot to some people.
    Here is a list of some heroes that needs an update on their hero card stats, in my oppinion:

    Alchemist: Carry from 1 to 2
    Ancient Apparation: Nuker from 0 to 1
    Axe: Durable from 3 to 2
    Beastmaster: Durable from 2 to 1
    Bloodseeker: Durable from 0 to 1,
    Clockwerk: Initiator from 1 to 2, Disabler from 0 to 1, Nuker from 0 to 1
    Dark Seer: Initiator from 1 to 3
    Dragon Knight: Disabler from 2 to 1
    Drow Ranger: Disabler from 0 to 1 ?
    Enchantress: Jungler from 1 to 2
    Enigma: Initiator from 2 to 3
    Huskar: Durable from 1 to 2
    Invoker: Disabler from 0 to 2, Nuker from 1 to 2, Escape from 1 to 0
    Jakiro: Lane Support from 2 to 1, Support from 0 to 2, Pusher from 2 to 1
    Juggernaut: Durable from 0 to 1
    Keeper of the Light: Pusher from 0 to 2
    Kunkka: Disabler from 1 to 2
    Lifestealer: Durable from 2 to 3
    Lone Druid: Jungler from 1 to 2
    Medusa: Initator from 0 to 1, Durable from 0 to 3
    Meepo: Nuker from 0 to 1, Pusher from 0 to 1
    Morphling: Durable from 0 to 2, Carry from 3 to 2, Initator from 1 to 0
    Naga Siren: Escape from 1 to 0, Initiator from 0 to 2
    Necrolyte: Lane support from 0 to 1
    Night Stalker: Carry from 0 to 1, Durable from 2 to 1, Disabler from 0 to 1 ?
    Ogre Magi: Support from 0 to 2
    Omniknight: Support from 1 to 3, Lane Support from 1 to 2
    Outworld Destroyer: Disabler from 0 to 1
    Phantom Lancer: Escape from 2 to 1, Carry from 2 to 3
    Puck: Escape from 1 to 3
    Pudge: Nuker from 0 to 2
    Rubick: Support from 0 to 1
    Silencer: Disabler from 0 to 1 ?
    Skeleton King: Disabler from 2 to 1
    Slark: Carry from 0 to 1, Nuker from 0 to 1, Durable from 0 to 1
    Sniper: Pusher from 0 to 1
    Spectre: Escape from 0 to 1
    Spirit Breaker: Durable from 2 to 1, Disabler from 1 to 2
    Sven: Support from 1 to 0, Carry from 1 to 3
    Templar Assassin: Durable from 0 to 1
    Timbersaw: Nuker from 1 to 3, Escape from 1 to 2
    Viper: Carry from 1 to 2
    Wisp: Disabler from 0 to 1
    Witch Doctor: Lane Support from 0 to 2


    -The question marks are for silence or disarm spells. Can be counted as a disable I guess. Still not sure about it.
    -A "Ganker" role addition would be sweet. Or not?
    -By the way I'm really confused with the "durability" term Valve is currently using. Being a strength hero, sole, doesnt mean 2 stars on it, eh?
    -If you have suggestions, or think otherwise, please let me and the rest of the community know.
    Last edited by zmbrip; 01-18-2013, 09:17 AM. Reason: Update

  • #2
    Hmm I have to check all this numbers u posted but, why ganker role? Does heroes like pudge deserve it? They are rotten.
    If you don't have an intelligent reply for me, don't bother I will shred your non sense to pieces.

    Comment


    • #3
      Rotten. Them jokes make me die a little inside.
      Pusher and Ganker are in the same sub-group of roles that are used for some specific tactical playstyles. Well, if Pusher is considered as a role, Gankers has to be there aswell.

      Comment


      • #4
        enchantress isnt a 2 star durable...although she has her passive, and a 90hp/sec heal, she just isnt a 2 star durable, and she isnt a 3 star jungler neither...she can jungle without problems, but she sacrifices xp/gold for it..
        and if you mean it must be mentioned that Lina is a 1 star carry, then enchantress needs that too...and I think both of them shouldnt need the 1 star carry
        ~Never forget~

        Comment


        • #5
          Naga should maintain the 1 escape cause she can escape with her ult

          Comment


          • #6
            Remember that this stats takes in considerations only the hero and his skills (without thinking in any item build, so I made my point here trying to 'fix' some of your corrections).

            Necrolyte: Lane support from 0 to 1, Carry from 1 to 0
            Agreed for lane support, disagree for carry. He can carry like a boss early on and tear apart enemy carry with 4k HP in a hit when they reach 50% hp on late game.

            Sniper: Pusher from 0 to 1, Nuker from 0 to 1
            Agreed for pusher. He is no nuker, his only skill to "nuke" is his ultimate that costs a lot of mana wich he doenst have a lot to spam, also the cooldown is kinda big for a nuker, he can do more damage auto-attacking for the channeling time of his skill late game.

            Meepo: Nuker from 0 to 1, Initiator from 1 to 0, Pusher from 0 to 1
            Agreed for nuker and pusher. Initiator shall stay as it is, he is great at it. Dagger masspoof is a imba combo, causes confusion and probably 1-2 kills advantage upon starting a fight.

            Lich: Lane support from 3 to 1
            He has 2 skills made for support only, if you're in a hard lane and focus your support skills you can deny a lot of exp and let your carry always armored up making he last hit without getting hit to death.

            Keeper of the Light: Pusher from 0 to 2, Lane Support from 2 to 1
            Agreed for Pusher, Lane support should be 2 His other 2 spells and ultimate bonus spells helps a lot early on.

            Enchantress: Jungler from 1 to 3, Durable from 1 to 2
            OK for jungler, but she cant be 2 stars on durable because of her small hp pool. She is durable only against physical damage early game and easily countered by good agility gain heroes.

            Huskar: Durable from 1 to 3
            His durable is due to his first skill wich only will get good when you start to build some str on Huskar, a simple stun can tear a huskar apart.

            Medusa: Disabler from 0 to 1, Durable from 0 to 3
            Agreed for durable but why disabler? she has only a slow and debuff of extra stats.

            Drow Ranger: Disabler from 0 to 1 ?
            Silencer: Disabler from 0 to 1 ?

            No stun, no disable. Silence only disables channeling spells, only 10 or 11 spells in a pool of 500+.

            Invoker: Initiator from 1 to 0, Disabler from 0 to 2, Nuker from 1 to 2
            Agreed for disabler he has 3 skills to disable, ok for nuker, but initiator shall stay as it is. He is great doing it, has a great range and good combos to initiate like a boss.

            Lina: Carry from 0 to 1
            This is hard to judge maybe... Remember to not take in consideration item-builds. I think if you put her against most 1 star carry both lvl 25 without items she will lose, so no.

            Lone Druid: Pusher from 2 to 3, jungler from 1 to 2
            Lycanthrope: Pusher from 2 to 1

            Yes for jungler on LD only.
            LD cant be pusher lvl 3, at lvl 16 he can deal +- 352,2 damage to the tower with all his skills, including bear demolish
            Lycan can deal 357,4 at lvl 16 + critical strikes from him and wolves. They both should stay as 2 stars pusher.

            Naga Siren: Escape from 1 to 0, Initiator from 0 to 2
            Agreed for initiator, but escape should remain as she can save herself and the whole team with the same ulti.

            Slark: Carry from 0 to 1, Nuker from 0 to 2, Durable from 0 to 1
            Agreed for carry. He cant be durable cause he takes his own hp and is easily countered by anti-invis things, also he has a low hp pool. He has 2 short cd spells, very spameable, but not worth 2 stars, maybe 1. But remember that late game he does more damage by just auto-attacking.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thank you guys for reading and sharing your precious thoughts. Most of my thanks to RocketFingers.

              Echantress: Jungler from 1 to 3, Durable from 1 to 2
              She is one of my favorite heroes. I have just thought about the "easy jungling" part when writing this I guess. But yeah, youre right BZAD, she sacrifices exp and gold. 2 stars would be enough, eh? On the carry thing, Lina has a way greater damage output. Only having a nice auto-attack damage doesnt mean she can carry. On durability, she has the lowest strength gain in the whole game, 1. But she is nearly immortal since 15-20th min.

              Naga Siren: Escape from 1 to 0, Initiator from 0 to 2
              I'm all okay with the ulti as an escape mechanism. But it appears to be, a hero can have 4 roles at most. So the usage of ult is way more useful and noticable as an initiate spell.

              Sniper: Pusher from 0 to 1, Nuker from 0 to 1
              Well, I used to get a soul ring or malevolence to spam his ult, which deal 655 damage for each 10 seconds at its highest level.

              Meepo: Nuker from 0 to 1, Initiator from 1 to 0, Pusher from 0 to 1
              Never thought about the dagger meepo before youve said. I guess

              Huskar: Durable from 1 to 3
              3 can be a bit much yeah. But an ordinary farmed Huskar can have 2 stars on it.

              Medusa: Disabler from 0 to 1, Durable from 0 to 3
              Disabler, no. Typo, my bad. It supposed to be initiator, as a mass buff removal, slow and anti-illus.

              Drow Ranger: Disabler from 0 to 1 ?
              Silencer: Disabler from 0 to 1 ?
              They both have the question mark following. Silence can be counted as a disable mechansm as it prevents all skill-shots.

              Invoker: Initiator from 1 to 0, Disabler from 0 to 2, Nuker from 1 to 2
              Same issue with naga. Hes way more a disabler, than an initiator.

              Lina: Carry from 0 to 1
              As a 1 star carry, Sven is nearly unmatched in 25 level full item 1v1 in whole heroes. If heroes like Necrolyte and Queen of Pain has 1 star on carry, why cant Lina? Hes pretty viable as a utility/semi-carry with power treads, orchid and more else, even in competitive. (Tried)

              Necrolyte: Lane support from 0 to 1, Carry from 1 to 0
              Lone Druid: Pusher from 2 to 3, jungler from 1 to 2
              Lycanthrope: Pusher from 2 to 1
              Totally agreed on your thoughts after I've thought on them.

              Slark: Carry from 0 to 1, Nuker from 0 to 2, Durable from 0 to 1
              His auto-attack damage comes from his 3rd, which is removed upon death or 2 mins as a hero with 1.5 agility gain. Agreed on 1 star nuker. But he is pretty durable to earn 1 star, as he can dispel anti-invis mechanics like dust, track or amplifty damage with his 1st. If they buy a ward, he can easily get away from it with his pounce. Only solution is a gem or a Bloodseeker.


              Post has been updated.
              Last edited by zmbrip; 01-16-2013, 02:17 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Enchantress is the hero with lowest str gain in game. She only has one durable point due to her skills. Also, she's a 2 jungler at best. Chen jungles better than her, even with less creeps.

                Invoker is a great initiator. Tornado + emp destroy positioning.

                Bloodseeker isn't a nuker. He has no immediate, high damaging skill.

                Windrunner disable may be strong, but it's almost completely situational. Maintain at 1.

                Silence isn't a disable per se. It's not a form of crowd control. Therefore, silence =/= disabler

                Jak is a great lane support. Tanky, a passive which deals damage, and a low mana stun. Also, he isn't item dependant.

                Sniper lacks immediate damaging spells to be a nuker.

                Nuke, by definition, is a strong, immediate spell. There are too many heroes there with delayed skills which you considered "nukers".

                Lone druid should never jungle. Only if he's being completely outlaned, which shouldn't happen anyway. For me, it should go down to 0

                Lina has close to no carry potential. Semi carry at best. Her passive is a average scaling skill, nothing else.

                Keep lich at level 3 lane support. He's nothing short than amazing. The only thing he lacks is a heal, but his skilslet more than make up for it. It denies xp and gold and do great harassing.

                Necrolyte is a bad lane support. Too much last hits dependent.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by zmbrip View Post
                  Thank you guys for reading and sharing your precious thoughts. Most of my thanks to RocketFingers.
                  ; )

                  I've read your point of view and I understand it. But you have to forget item-builds when tagging the heroes.
                  If you count item-build almost every hero can carry with the right items, so, thats why Lina can't be a carry for example, you have to imaginate her lvl 25 without any items. Her damage output isnt that much late game, its different from Necro for example wich scales late game. This is also why sniper can't be considered a nuker, without mana regen build he cant spam his ultimate and quickly kill someone, he does a lot more damage by just auto-attacking while his ult is at cd.

                  I agree and i want to bump some of Agente L statements.



                  Originally posted by Agente L View Post
                  Windrunner disable may be strong, but it's almost completely situational. Maintain at 1.
                  Silence isn't a disable per se. It's not a form of crowd control. Therefore, silence =/= disabler
                  Lina has close to no carry potential. Semi carry at best. Her passive is a average scaling skill, nothing else.
                  Necrolyte is a bad lane support. Too much last hits dependent.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have a couple of things. Jakiro is a good lane support with dual breath. That skill costs practically no mana and is good harassment. I don't think his rating of lane support should be hit. Neither should Lich. Lich is a fantastic lane support with free denies and a free harassment spell. He definitely deserves the rating he has. Another change i'd say is make phantom lancer from a 2 star carry to a 3 star carry, as it's common knowledge that a well built pl can utterly decimate teams. Invoker should definitely have initiation at at least one, because of tornado and emp. Lone Druid is a good jungler. I'd say he's a jungling potential of 2 if enigma is 3. Huskar is definitely at 2 durability. 3 is reserved for the truly durable heroes such as centaur and dragon knight, medusa really late game. 2 implies tanky, where 3 should be just a veritable juggernaut of durability. Sniper MIGHT be a pusher, keyword MAYBE. He is definitely not a nuker though. Nukers rely on their spells to do damage. Having one high damage spell does not make you a nuker. Sniper is an auto-attacker with a singular high damage spell. I largely agree with Agente L, with a few differences. Silence is most definitely a disable. It's not a stun, but it is a disable. 5 seconds of silence globally is definitely an annoying disable, and can completely reverse initiation or turn the tide of a fight by just preventing opponents from casting any spells. Silence prevents a target from casting abilities, and is therefore a form of crowd control. Lina has no carry potential, and necrolyte is bad at pretty much everything. You could make a case for necrolyte being a minor pusher however I suppose with some lane support. He's one of the harder heroes to rate because he doesn't do anything particularly well, he just does a few things adequately.
                    Last edited by tortoos; 01-16-2013, 07:46 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by zmbrip View Post
                      Rotten. Them jokes make me die a little inside.
                      Pusher and Ganker are in the same sub-group of roles that are used for some specific tactical playstyles. Well, if Pusher is considered as a role, Gankers has to be there aswell.
                      Sarcasm and you.

                      Anyway I agree on introducing ganker role, probly as a major role too.
                      If you don't have an intelligent reply for me, don't bother I will shred your non sense to pieces.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tortoos View Post
                        I have a couple of things. Jakiro is a good lane support with dual breath. That skill costs practically no mana and is good harassment. I don't think his rating of lane support should be hit. Neither should Lich. Lich is a fantastic lane support with free denies and a free harassment spell. He definitely deserves the rating he has.
                        In that point of view, youre probably right about Lich, but cant say the same to Jakiro. But agreed on at least 1 star of it should stay.


                        Originally posted by tortoos View Post
                        Another change i'd say is make phantom lancer from a 2 star carry to a 3 star carry, as it's common knowledge that a well built pl can utterly decimate teams.
                        Thanks for that, added to the list.


                        Originally posted by Agente L View Post
                        Bloodseeker isn't a nuker. He has no immediate, high damaging skill.

                        Windrunner disable may be strong, but it's almost completely situational. Maintain at 1.

                        Lina has close to no carry potential. Semi carry at best. Her passive is a average scaling skill, nothing else.

                        Keep lich at level 3 lane support. He's nothing short than amazing. The only thing he lacks is a heal, but his skilslet more than make up for it. It denies xp and gold and do great harassing.
                        Agreed on all of those and updated the main post.


                        Originally posted by Shovelrats View Post
                        Sarcasm and you.

                        Anyway I agree on introducing ganker role, probly as a major role too.
                        Just kidding dude. Thats a great thing you make me remember the ganker role suggestion. Thats an important thing to discuss.

                        Originally posted by tortoos View Post
                        Silence is most definitely a disable. It's not a stun, but it is a disable. 5 seconds of silence globally is definitely an annoying disable, and can completely reverse initiation or turn the tide of a fight by just preventing opponents from casting any spells. Silence prevents a target from casting abilities, and is therefore a form of crowd control.
                        Thanks for making the explanation that I could not.

                        Additional thoughts:
                        Lone Druid: Should jungle or not, thats not the point. The point is he can do it like a boss.
                        Necrolyte: If you skip your 3rd, you will have a great heal and a harrassment spell both in 1. And the 2nd is a total annoying spell which requires no mana or action to use. Thats why I think he can be a lane support.
                        Sniper: A 10 second cooldown spell with 655 damage is no joke. I still think It needs more discussion.

                        Idea on Invoker:
                        Now: 1 star carry, 1 star nuker, 1 star inititator and 1 star escape
                        New Suggestion: Carry from 1 to 0, Disabler from 0 to 1, Initiator stays
                        Thats more fair I suppose.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Really agree on Wisp as a disabler. His stun is extremely helpful, maybe not in locking down people but in allow people to escape or generally being an annoyance. Maybe rank him as pusher? Stun + spirits can give your creeps an advantage over the enemy team's.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by moupon View Post
                            Maybe rank him as pusher? Stun + spirits can give your creeps an advantage over the enemy team's.
                            If a hero is a pusher,
                            a. He has a spammable high damage AoE spell. (Powershot, Carrion Swarm)
                            b. Has a tower-damaging spell. (Diabloic Edict, Fire Arrows)
                            c. Global teleportation or a spell to summon allies. (Teleport, Dark Rift, Recall)
                            d. A spell that allows you to summon companions, additional units in other words. (Spirit Bear, Mirror Image, Enchant, Serpent Wards)

                            So no, wisp isnt a pusher. Maybe with his ult, but as its limimted with time, no.
                            Last edited by zmbrip; 01-18-2013, 09:19 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No, LD is a bad jungler. He can do maybe 2 or 3 jungle spots before spirit bear dying, and then you have to wait a long ass cooldown to go back to it. He has no self heal like BS or naix, no unit summon like prophet or charm like chen and enchantress.

                              Necro aura is horrible for supporting cause it pushes the lane and can steal last hits from your carry.

                              Yeah, but sniper should only use that skill for harassment/initiation and to catch running heroes. His auto attack dps is tends to be much higher, due to how fast his attack is, and due to headshot procs. Spamming assassinate isn't very good. He also lacks mana to do it. He also has a cast time, making the true cooldown somewhere closer to 12 seconds.
                              Last edited by Agente L; 01-18-2013, 08:14 AM.

                              Comment

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