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Thread: Suggestion: Chat goes ValveIRC

  1. #11
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    If there is admin power and also mod power (granted by the admin) I just hope the popular channel names are given to an established admin/known personality from other communities and not some random dude ("whoever claims channel first is admin").

    As you said deciding on admin for regional channels is also a problem. And I don't think Valve would spend any ressources on developping chat bots + maintaining those regional channels. I think it is far better if it is community managed.
    Just give someone who looks promising mod rights. And take it away from him if there are many complaints. (Have players send in application via forum.)

    Features as an admin/moderator can be: kick, ban (permanent/time based), mute(permanent/time based), give speech right, giving mod power
    speech right is sometimes used in IRCs. A possible scenario applied to our case is: 2 professional dota teams talking in a chat channel and people are free to join and listen.

    I am all for script support. If we can kick/ban script bots I don't think they are going to be a problem.
    They can warn players. They can mute players more efficient if they spam. They can give countdowns when next tourny starts. They can host quiz. ...
    There are some really nice script bots in some IRCs.
    James "2GD" Harding's career as a Dota 2 host on Valve events
    * 25.02.16 - 26.02.16
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  2. #12
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    Nice idea, logged in just to say that.

  3. #13
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    I think it should be a full on IRC system. I'm not sure how hard you can lock it down but if you look at Twitch.tv they are using IRC for their chat system.
    Their chat system is very strict already.
    You have to register on twitch.
    you have to get an oauth key to even use a 3rd party program to login to their chat.
    you can't change your name or it will kick you off the network.
    a lot of the regular commands on irc don't work on twitch irc.
    So looking at twitch chat maybe follow them unless there are downsides i don't know about

  4. #14
    Basic Member squinte's Avatar
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    Some channel moderation would be great. I suggested a while ago that steam groups could open group chat in dota 2, so as to grant a level of moderation to the chat system. I'm not against IRC, and definitely don't agree with Rose's opinion about the medium of chat. IRC is solid, and a variant of it in Dota 2 chat would be great. However, at the moment I agree with toobulkeh. We only really need an API for scripts/bots, some built in features and a way to claim ownership on channels we create. It's fairly easy to claim ownership of guild or team channels, because when you create teams/guilds you become the leader.

    For public chats, there doesn't seem to be a viable way to figure out ownership. You could give it to the original creator, but how many times does a chat creator come online? Does the original creator still play Dota 2? If they do, are they still using this channel? It gets a bit harder, you see. If they implement this type of system, would they have to wipe all public channels, or collect data before the implement something like this and sort of compute who should be channel owner based on length using, how frequently they use the chat while in game, how frequently they repeat themselves in said chat, and just total average chat time over a 2 week period?
    This ain't ova.

  5. #15
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    this is a great idea OP but it is far beyond the level of community interaction that Valve wants happening within their playerbase

  6. #16
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    Thanks for the input, I'll address some points made.

    Quote Originally Posted by surf View Post
    this is a great idea OP but it is far beyond the level of community interaction that Valve wants happening within their playerbase
    I wonder about that, they did just go full Linux. Linux is a stone's throw away from IRC.

    Quote Originally Posted by GermanViet View Post
    If there is admin power and also mod power (granted by the admin) I just hope the popular channel names are given to an established admin/known personality from other communities and not some random dude ("whoever claims channel first is admin").

    As you said deciding on admin for regional channels is also a problem. And I don't think Valve would spend any ressources on developping chat bots + maintaining those regional channels. I think it is far better if it is community managed.
    Just give someone who looks promising mod rights. And take it away from him if there are many complaints. (Have players send in application via forum.)

    ...
    My reply to the quote below mentions the channel registration problem, your point of Valve not spending resources on a chatbot however, I'd like to suggest the opposite is the best case scenario and that Valve should certainly invest in a bot - it should also be open source so the community can make their own changes to Valve's bot to help with creation of community bots. Valve has to invest if the chat system is going to work in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by squinte View Post
    For public chats, there doesn't seem to be a viable way to figure out ownership. You could give it to the original creator, but how many times does a chat creator come online? Does the original creator still play Dota 2? If they do, are they still using this channel? It gets a bit harder, you see. If they implement this type of system, would they have to wipe all public channels, or collect data before the implement something like this and sort of compute who should be channel owner based on length using, how frequently they use the chat while in game, how frequently they repeat themselves in said chat, and just total average chat time over a 2 week period?
    I agree, sorting out the channel ownership of public channels is complicated. If we apply some rules to ownership like a typical IRC server does then I think that would solve 90% (+- 10%) of the protocol/abuse issues that come up.

    For example, current IRC registration conditions: To register ownership of a channel you must have op status, the channel mustn't be already registered, etc.
    Steam could implement rules tweaked for ValveIRC to handle edge cases (like preventing op status after a net split in unregistered channels, etc. Maybe typical IRC servers already handle edge cases, I'm not sure).


    Quote Originally Posted by decoy View Post
    I think it should be a full on IRC system. I'm not sure how hard you can lock it down but if you look at Twitch.tv they are using IRC for their chat system.
    Their chat system is very strict already.
    You have to register on twitch.
    you have to get an oauth key to even use a 3rd party program to login to their chat.
    you can't change your name or it will kick you off the network.
    a lot of the regular commands on irc don't work on twitch irc.
    So looking at twitch chat maybe follow them unless there are downsides i don't know about
    I agree, Twitch's implementation has a good handle on it. Maybe full IRC with Steam login's is a better experience than ValveIRC. There's also a middle ground: ValveIRC is built into Steam (with an interface designed for a game) but you can also login with any IRC client and your Steam login.


    Quote Originally Posted by vrihet View Post
    I would suggest 10 ignores/reports bans a user from posting in a chat channel for a designated amount of time. Most people will be playing games most of the time, so they are unlikely to get banned. Trade bots that spam, however, will be exposed to more players as they come on and off.
    I agree a quick fix would solve the problem, I'd like to push the theme of my original post though. I think it's worthwhile thinking about the future of chat on Steam/Dota and what we want out of it. I'd recommend you try IRC if you haven't before, there's really neat bots out there and IRC has lasted the test of time so far.


    Quote Originally Posted by toobulkeh View Post
    All of these problems and features can be solved with an API to their current system. No need to replace it with IRC. May I suggest a port for bots like Hubot, written in Node.js:
    http://hubot.github.com/
    You'll need channel owners and an authentication built in, for public channels, which would require a channel type separation (probably already exists) and an ownership mechanism.

    Side:
    The reason there are so few replies is the user-gating on the forums. If a vote system was built into the forums, that didn't require login, that'll help posts like these that go viral show a popular opinion.
    I hadn't considered an API, I agree that it would solve the problem. I'm inclined to think that an API would be harder for beginners to work with rather than than custom ValveIRC scripting, I've never used Valve APIs so I can't speak from experience, please correct me if I've got that wrong.

    Another thought was that the current chat system may already be an implementation of ValveIRC, it's pretty similar to IRC. Let's stay focused though, the current chat experience is lame and needs fixing.

    I'd like to see what happens to the community if ValveIRC were implemented.

    More feedback is welcome, this thread just hit 5k views with 14 replies. Until someone posts otherwise I'm going to assume the majority of those views are silent agreement. If there's a better solution then speak up. If you're Valve then fill in some of the gaps we're missing please.

    Here's a link to the reddit discussion: http://redd.it/1okbq2

  7. #17
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    You have the Ignore button. USE IT!
    This is how Dota2 games should look like! Game 1_Game 2_Game 3_Game 4_Game 5_Game 6

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