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Thread: General Ranked Matchmaking Feedback Thread[READ OP]

  1. #511
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    played 5 games in a row solo vs 4-5 stack ...most frustrating games ever ...volvo give back money for compendium or solo queue....this mm is unplayable.. valve cares only about money not good play experience ((((()))))giff back solo queeeeuee

  2. #512
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    Because there is no strict controls on how players pick/lane, almost every game I have has been a false start recently.

    I was forced to mid Rubick because the typical mid hero, Storm Spirit, decided for no reason to solo the hardlane. Sniper, who could've midded, goes long lane with the support. Furion, who could've taken any lane, decides to Jungle. I did decent against the Nyx mid... except the other support fed like crazy and Storm Spirit got zero farm. This could've ended in a much better way but these people do not know on paper or in a real game how to pick or lane in a way that suits all five players.

    Please have the picking done before the map loads so we can at least bail if this happens or give us a mulligan because people fail at communicating.

  3. #513
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    I want to know overall winrate of the solo players in rmm. I lost 700 solo mmr in the past 9 days, either i suddenly became retarded, or u fckd something up in ur mm system. i didnt change anything in my playstyle, tryharding as always, but i keep losing. whats happening ??????????

    also dislikes: ppl randoming in rmm. pls disable random button in rmm.
    Last edited by SlayerS; 07-29-2014 at 09:01 PM.

  4. #514
    Basic Member kykiskie's Avatar
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  5. #515
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    Lightbulb

    First of all i have to say i really like the general idea of Ranked Matchmaking (RMM), i like being competitive and trying to improve, and i really hope we get even more options to do it for example in automated leagues.
    But on the other side there are a lot of issues, some of them like bad behavior are not exclusive to the game and are hard to deal with, but others are down to the matchmaking system itself. Here are some points that influence my RMM-experience in a bad way and some ideas to improve the quality of games.

    -One of the most obvious problems occurs when someone abandons a game and you lose points for just being on the wrong team. Its really frustrating to be punished for something that you are hardly in control of. I think you should not lose any MMR in this case. To stay true to the idea of ELO rating the abandoning player would have to lose the sum of all the points won by opponent team. If the abandoning happened to play in a party, the negative points would be equally distributed between them. In numbers: player A abandons , opponent team gains a total of 125 MMR, player A was in a party with players B and C -> players A, B, C lose 41.7 each, remaining two team members do not lose or gain MMR.

    -Another thing that i became aware of, while the daily hero challenge was running, is the fact that nothing prevents you from playing a specific hero for the first time in RMM. I encountered multiple situations where a player would either openly admit they never played the hero before, or would go for questionable item and skill builds i had never seen before in my skill bracket, or would talk all game long in embarrassment that he is so sorry for his abysmal performance. I am pretty sure this is a big problem especially in Captains Draft. I know that you at Valve do not like to restrict the hero choice in any way. But there needs to be a way to protect a player and other players from their own foolishness. I would suggest making it mandatory to play and finish at least one game in Normal Matchmaking or Co-op with a specific hero before allowing it to be picked in RMM. The only remaining question would be how this could be realized in regards of Captains Draft and Captains Mode.

    -Since Dotabuff.com player profiles seperatly show the overall winrate in RMM i realized that there a quite a lot of players with winrates that deviate alot frome the supposedly ideal 50%. If a player manages to win only 40% or even 30% of his ranked Matches you can assume that his MMR and actual skill level do not match at all. The are different reasons for inaccurate MMR, for example that the MMR was off from the very beginning, maybe the smurf detection was too generous, maybe someone found a way of manipulating it. But also after hundreds of games in RMM players MMR could suddenly become inaccurate by exchanging accounts, boosting, taking a break, training outside of RMM, playing in a party, playing drunk and so on. You could argue that at some point the players MMR will eventually match his actual skill level again, but that will take time, a lot of time in some cases. And every Match he is playing to get there will be more or less unbalanced, every time 9 other players will lose or gain MMR in an undeserved way. So to increase the overall quality of RMM you need to make these guys reach their actual MMR as fast as possible, or at least faster than it is now. To measure if someone is under or over performing i suggest looking at the average winning rate over the last maybe 20 games (sample size could be adjusted). The further the winning rate deviates from 50%, the higher the uncertainty of his MMR would be. The higher the uncertainty of the players MMR is, the more MMR points should be at stake in the following match of the player. If someone has lost his last 20 matches, he would then lose or win in addition to the regular 25 (most of the time) a considerable amount of bonus points, in this extreme case maybe 75. It could be argued, if these points should be linear or exponential proportional to the level of uncertainty (deviation from 50% winning rate). As a real world example i would like to refer to Juice's ELO Hell experiment http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/commen..._finally_over/. I took him 144 games to climb from 2900 MMR to 5400 MMR with a ridiculous record of 122-22 and thus overall win rate of 85%. Yes in the end he proved that technically ELO Hell does not exist, but he effectively ruined hundreds of players game experience on the way by totally dominating them. Also hundreds of players (his teammates) got easy points they did not deserve. So in some way this experiment also proved how flawed the system is. If there would have been a system similar to the one i described his progress would have been a lot faster, he would have needed less games, there would have been less unbalanced games, and a lot of innocent players would have been spared. I think the overall quality of games would be improved and everyone would be happier.

    tl;dr
    1. do not punish uninvolved teammates of an abandoning player, punish abandoning more
    2. make it mandatory to play a specific hero once in Normal Matchmaking, before allowing him in Ranked
    3. implement a system that accelerates +-progress if your MMR and real skill level do not match

  6. #516
    Basic Member Spectre's Avatar
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    Matchmaking is 1 step fowards, 3 steps back. It was good a few patches ago. Now it's awful again. It's easy to tell because win/lose streaks are way too common and you get paired with different language speakers way more often.

    They need to have someone in charge of overseeing matchmaking development instead of constantly making changes and undoing them because they have no idea what direction to take.
    Last edited by Spectre; 07-30-2014 at 06:10 PM.

  7. #517
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    icefrog job

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    everything

    i wonder when will u fix your system, u just ignore people ideas giving no answer to anyone, as i see u just want make money and more money, what if people stop buying ur stuffs till u fix rmm? just giving the right matches and not matching noobs on the team, i always wonder why it took like 2 or 1 min to get a match, if there is more than 1 million dota gamers , why so long? however, the win and lose count, why is there? who cares how much loses we have?, ur system is really bad, but you keep it. I suggest to change it , is true some people play for fun, but what about the people, like me, who wants to have a really nice game and improve our game, with your system is pointless. well, i know you wont pay attention because u will only focus on sell treasure items.

  8. #518
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    Gave you 14564565454 million dollars and RMM still sux.
    Chat isn't disabled and everyone writes shits.

    (I'm not polite because your matchmaking system pissed me off. Just for info.)

    http://dotabuff.com/players/179294681 this guy 4,7k MMR...
    Last edited by LadaB; 07-31-2014 at 11:33 AM.

  9. #519
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    The system is completely fucking broken. Win 20 games and get 150 rating. Lose 2 games and lose 80 rating. Just what the fuck?

  10. #520
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    ... (Yup i'm gonna whine)

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    Quote Originally Posted by suneiku View Post
    When you queue solo you almost always get stacks of players on each side. Now, it's a matter of which stacks are better, not so much what you do yourself as a solo player.
    This defines how dota games go these days: All about which stacks have better (or any) strategy, and the solo players are thrown around like clowns.
    Is it so hard for Valve and devs to see the obvious and take action??

    Guess you either die a hero or live long enough to see the joke is on you.

    Posting here since the solo queue thread is probably ignored (but then again this one is probably ignored too \o/)
    Last edited by Himself; 07-31-2014 at 02:25 PM.

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