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Thread: [Confirmed] Essence Shift does not reduce/restore enough HP/Mana

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    Basic Member igo95862's Avatar
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    [Confirmed] Essence Shift does not reduce/restore enough HP/Mana

    I looked throught KBL and search and could not find it. Strange that ThoAppelsin never posted it despite knowing it.
    Dota 2: Currently it reduce/restore it relativistically meaning that % of your hp and mana will be same.


    Dota 1: Restores/reduces it absolutely meaning that for every 1 strenght or mana it will restore/reduce 19 health and 13 mana. In dota 2 this number is in all cases less or equal if you are on full health or mana.

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    Every time someone make a false report.
    Making people's losses feel worse with just my name (don't ask me how it work, I certainly don't)

    Currently observed Orb(Unique Attack Modifiers), Critical, and Bash interactions for DotA2

    To:
    People who cry MM isn't fair: Maybe you're not as great as you make yourself to be.
    People who wants surrender: It exists, but I'm not teaching you how to do it.

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    Basic Member igo95862's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoflCat View Post
    Not really. There is not a single word about essence shift and both leveling up issue and whirling death have separated threads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by igo95862 View Post
    Not really. There is not a single word about essence shift and both leveling up issue and whirling death have separated threads.
    Compare where Essence Shift's negative stat is applied...
    Every time someone make a false report.
    Making people's losses feel worse with just my name (don't ask me how it work, I certainly don't)

    Currently observed Orb(Unique Attack Modifiers), Critical, and Bash interactions for DotA2

    To:
    People who cry MM isn't fair: Maybe you're not as great as you make yourself to be.
    People who wants surrender: It exists, but I'm not teaching you how to do it.

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    Basic Member igo95862's Avatar
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    Having separated thread about each incorrect spell interaction is better: much easier to search in KBL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by igo95862 View Post
    Having separated thread about each incorrect spell interaction is better: much easier to search in KBL.
    And this will happen:
    Quote Originally Posted by shalafi View Post
    Seems that they fixed OD and half Timbersaw (only for STR decreases), they didn't touch Slark.

    Can someone check if OD gains the mana on top of decreasing it?
    Or this:
    http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...ight=ice+blast


    This isn't really an interaction on specific spell problem, it's a problem on the system itself (and so far Valve has been fixing each spell interaction because people report them as such, instead of properly explaining the overall scope of it)

    This 'bug' + all those others could be fixed in one single swoop by changing how base stat gain/loss work (in which case the real bug here is that Slark's Essence Shift is applied as 'bonus stat' rather than base)
    Every time someone make a false report.
    Making people's losses feel worse with just my name (don't ask me how it work, I certainly don't)

    Currently observed Orb(Unique Attack Modifiers), Critical, and Bash interactions for DotA2

    To:
    People who cry MM isn't fair: Maybe you're not as great as you make yourself to be.
    People who wants surrender: It exists, but I'm not teaching you how to do it.

  7. #7
    Basic Member igo95862's Avatar
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    No. It is not general problem. Every skill has its own rules of it restores hp and mana. Then Valve fixes interactions they usually fix it for specific spells because its how its codded.

    In Dota 1 there some rules regarding base and bonus stats and its interaction with current HP:
    White stats increase (essence shift, astral Imprisonment, leveling up) = HP and mana gained absolutely
    Green Stats increase (items) = HP and mana gained relatively


    In Dota 2 there are no rules. All should be changed directly in skill.

    Just look at Astral Imprisonment: it is applied as bonus stats, then it was fixed Valve does not make it apply as base stats, they just changed how it affects enemies mana but everything remains unchanged. And after that they fixed how it restores mana on enemies but it is still bugged on mana restoration on himself

    Changing Essence Shift to affect base stats will not automatically fix issue I created this thread about.

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    I'm sorry, what?

    You said this is NOT a general problem, that each skills have its own rules?

    Then you proceed to say DotA1 has the general rule
    White stats increase (essence shift, astral Imprisonment, leveling up) = HP and mana gained absolutely
    Green Stats increase (items) = HP and mana gained relatively
    Yes there's no such rules in DotA2, THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT WORKING CORRECTLY (in particular, that base stat gain/loss cause flat HP/MP increase/loss is not in)
    Yes AI applied as bonus stat, yes Valve 'fixed' it to change enemy's mana, yes then they have to fix it AGAIN on the mana restoration, ALL BECAUSE IT DOESN'T COUNT AS BASE STAT.

    Yes changing Essence Shift to affect base stat alone won't fix the issue (though it's part of it), but if Valve change the very basic of white/green stat gain, it'd let a lot of issues be solved by simply changing it to affect white stat or green stat isn't it.
    Every time someone make a false report.
    Making people's losses feel worse with just my name (don't ask me how it work, I certainly don't)

    Currently observed Orb(Unique Attack Modifiers), Critical, and Bash interactions for DotA2

    To:
    People who cry MM isn't fair: Maybe you're not as great as you make yourself to be.
    People who wants surrender: It exists, but I'm not teaching you how to do it.

  9. #9
    Basic Member igo95862's Avatar
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    Valve specifically codded Dota 2 to make everything independent from each other:

    Each skill has its own cast point. In dota 1 cast point is defined by a unit that cast it.

    Each skill can be specicly changed to affect or not affect magic immune units by simply adding "DOTA_UNIT_TARGET_FLAG_MAGIC_IMMUNE_ENEMIES" flag. In Dota 1 making ability an ultimate will make it go through magic immunity. Ultimates that do not go throught magic immunity are casted by dummy units with not ultimate version of ability.

    Valve will not add rules like this one with base or bonus stats increase. Instead they will change every skill interaction.

    You may ask isn't it too much work? Why not make everything follow the rules? Thats because rules puts limitations. By having much greater control over mechanics you will have much more work to do but in the end you will have greater power.

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    kinda sad dota2 never got this right... first it was undying and OD, now slark and we dont know if it will keep going wrong like this...(err, is whirling death correct for now?)

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