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Thread: About the missing heroes in Ability Draft

  1. #1
    Volunteer Moderator bu3ny's Avatar
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    About the missing heroes in Ability Draft

    I think it's kinda sad that lots of heroes are completely disabled in this mode. Basically every hero who has 5 or more ability slots is not in this game mode, which makes sense, since spells with sub-abilities would take 2 or more slots even when the hero you got has only 4 slots.

    But those disabled heroes also have spells with no sub-ability.
    There are so many great spells which are simply unavailable in the mode just because the original hero happens to have one spell with a sub-ability.
    Also, I'm sure you all already noticed that there are spells of 12 heroes in the draft pool.

    I wanted to suggest:

    Instead of adding spells of an 11th and 12th hero with 4 spells into the pool, how about adding random, sub-skill-less spells from the disabled heroes into the pool? The hero itself should still stay disabled.

    Example:
    Beastmaster is disabled. Reason: Call of the Wild comes with 2 spells.
    So, add a chance for Wild Axes, Inner Beast or Primal Roar to appear in the pool

    Doom is disabled. Reason: Devour can give him up to 2 more abilities.
    So, add a chance for LVL?Death, Scorched Earth or Doom to appear in the pool

    Example with pictures:
    Spoiler: 

    In this game we have Lich, Kunkka, Undying, Anti Mage, Phantom Assassin, Necrophos, Pugna, Visage, Zeus and Ursa in the pool. Additionally, we have the spell sets from Slardar and Tinker.


    My suggestion would turn the last part, the Slardar and Tinker skill sets, into random skills of heroes who are disabled. Spells which don't need 2 skill slots.
    So I replaced Slardar's and Tinker's skills with:
    Icarus Dive (its sub-skill uses the same slots as the spell itself by default), Phase Shift, Wave Form, Laser, Chakra Magic and Soul Catcher, and Primal Roar and Supernova as ulties.




    Your thoughts?

    List of all spells of disabled heroes which require only 1 skill slot and could make an appearance in the pool:
    Spoiler: 


    Beastmaster:
    - Wild Axes
    - Inner Beast
    - Primal Roar
    Currently disabled because of Call of the Wild coming with 2 seperate spells


    Io:
    - Tether (sub ability uses same slot as main spell)
    - Overcharge
    - Relocate
    Currently disabled because of Spirits coming with 2 sub-abilities


    Earth Spirit:
    -Boulder Smash
    -Geomagnetic Grip
    -Rolling Boulder
    -Magnetize
    (I think Boulder Smash and Geo Grip are strong spells even without the stones. Magnetize and Rolling Boulder are arguable)
    Currently disabled because of Stone Remnant innate ability



    Phoenix:
    Icarus Dive (sub ability uses same slot as main spell)
    Fire Spirits (sub ability uses same slot as main spell)
    Supernova
    Currently disabled because of Sun Ray's 2nd sub-ability needing its own slot


    Doom:
    Scorched Earth
    LVL? Death
    Doom
    Currently disabled because of Devour giving the caster abilities from neutrals


    Morphling:
    Waveform
    Adaptive Strike
    Replicate (sub ability uses same slot as main spell)
    Currently disabled because of Morph needing 2 slots


    Lone Druid:
    Summon Spirit Bear
    Rabid
    Synergy
    Currently disabled because of True Form giving the caster a 5th ability


    Troll Warlord:
    Fervor
    Battle Trance
    (is he disabled? I don't know, I never saw him. Maybe he is because Berserker's Rage bugs too much)


    Ember Spirit:
    Searing Chains
    Sleight of Fist
    Flame Guard
    Currently disabled because of Fire Remnants needing 2 slots


    Shadow Fiend:
    Necromastery
    Presence of the Dark Lord
    Requiem of Souls
    Currently disabled because of Shadow Raze coming with 3 seperate spells


    Meepo:
    Earth Bind
    Poof
    Geostrike
    Currently disabled because of Divided we Stand, not exactly sure what happens, but I guess it's because it always creates Meepos with Meepo spells


    Puck:
    Waning Rift
    Phase Shift
    Dream Coil
    Currently disabled because of Illusory Orb's sub-ability needing its own slot


    Chen:
    Penitence
    Holy Persuasion
    Hand of God
    Currently disabled becaose of Test of Faith coming with 2 seperate spells


    Ogre Magi
    Fire Blast
    Ignite
    Bloodlust
    (I'm sure many people would love to have multicast)
    Currently disabled because of... I don't know. I guess he always gets Unrefined Fireblast when he gets agha, regardless of not having Multicast



    Rubick:
    Telekinesis (sub ability uses same slot as main spell)
    Fade Bolt
    Null Field
    Currently disabled because of Spell steal givinig him a 5th spell


    Keeper of the Light
    Illuminate (sub ability uses same slot as main spell)
    Mana Leak
    Chakra Magic
    Currently disabled because of Spirit Form giving him 2 seperate spells

    Shadow Demon:
    Disruption
    Soul Catcher
    Demonic Purge
    Currently disabled because of Shadow Poison's sub-ability needing its own slot
    Last edited by bu3ny; 02-08-2014 at 06:42 AM.
    Please, just call me buny.

  2. #2
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    Surely they can add an extra ability slot or two to a hero for subabilities? It seems they could use the existing 5/6-ability hero layouts as templates. I think the real problem is the possibility for Heroes to pick too many skills with subabilities. If someone had (for example) Shadowraze, Devour, Spirits, and Spellsteal they would need 12 ability slots (and 12 hotkeys).

    Rather than adding more spells that don't have subabilities to the pool I suggest they could keep the system as it is and add heroes with more than 4 ability slots to the mode, but with the limitation that there be no more than one such hero in the selection pool. That way almost all heroes could be included in the mode and it would be impossible to have more than 6 ability slots. Hotkeys are simply handled as normal, except subabilities are always assigned D and F.

    So for instance, if the pool would include 10 heroes with 4 abilities plus Puck and Shadow Fiend, it could repick one of the last two at random until it has 11 four-slot heroes. Suppose Shadow Fiend remains in the pool and someone picks Shadowraze as their first ability. Then Shadowraze (near) would be assigned the hotkey Q, (medium) D, and (far) F. The other three skills the player selected would be assigned W, E, R as normal. Since there couldn't be any other heroes with >4 abilities other than Shadow Fiend, no additional hotkeys beyond D and F would be needed.

    I think it would be possible to add most unused heroes to the mode completely (rather than only adding some of their skills) with this minor limitation. This way the amount of different skills and heroes in the game could be expanded while the skill selection rules remain the same: such a change would strictly add material to the mode rather than changing the rules.

    Also this way we could finally experience the terror of Illusory Orb Magnus.

  3. #3
    Basic Member Zorjeff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunouns View Post
    Surely they can add an extra ability slot or two to a hero for subabilities? It seems they could use the existing 5/6-ability hero layouts as templates. I think the real problem is the possibility for Heroes to pick too many skills with subabilities. If someone had (for example) Shadowraze, Devour, Spirits, and Spellsteal they would need 12 ability slots (and 12 hotkeys).

    Rather than adding more spells that don't have subabilities to the pool I suggest they could keep the system as it is and add heroes with more than 4 ability slots to the mode, but with the limitation that there be no more than one such hero in the selection pool. That way almost all heroes could be included in the mode and it would be impossible to have more than 6 ability slots. Hotkeys are simply handled as normal, except subabilities are always assigned D and F.

    So for instance, if the pool would include 10 heroes with 4 abilities plus Puck and Shadow Fiend, it could repick one of the last two at random until it has 11 four-slot heroes. Suppose Shadow Fiend remains in the pool and someone picks Shadowraze as their first ability. Then Shadowraze (near) would be assigned the hotkey Q, (medium) D, and (far) F. The other three skills the player selected would be assigned W, E, R as normal. Since there couldn't be any other heroes with >4 abilities other than Shadow Fiend, no additional hotkeys beyond D and F would be needed.

    I think it would be possible to add most unused heroes to the mode completely (rather than only adding some of their skills) with this minor limitation. This way the amount of different skills and heroes in the game could be expanded while the skill selection rules remain the same: such a change would strictly add material to the mode rather than changing the rules.

    Also this way we could finally experience the terror of Illusory Orb Magnus.
    also if you have two 5 slot heroes, one with a 2 slot ult (ember, ld, ogre, ta) or one 6 slot hero with a 3 slot ult (rubick, kotl) then they can all be added to the pool
    Spoiler: 

  4. #4
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    Condolences, but I believe the problem is they have lazy coders.

  5. #5
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    I'm not going to ask for anything more robust than a "only one hero with more than 4 skills" check, as that seems straightforward enough to possibly be implemented.

  6. #6
    Basic Member Keowee's Avatar
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    +1. What else to add...
    Remember, remember the 1st of November

  7. #7

    Missing heroes from ability draft

    I have played over 100 ability draft matches, and I do not ever recall seeing the following heroes in the pool. Does anyone know if they will ever be added?

    beast master

    wisp

    doom

    morph

    templar

    lone druid

    troll

    shadow fiend

    spectre

    meepo

    puck

    chen

    ogre magi

    rubick

    kotl

    shadow demon

    And all heroes that are currently disabled in captains mode. Invoker would be an obvious exclusion from ability draft.

  8. #8
    Basic Member Keowee's Avatar
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    These are heroes with more than 4 skill slots. There are many related suggestions here, but nobody knows when they will be added.
    Remember, remember the 1st of November

  9. #9
    Basic Member func_door's Avatar
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    Meepo has only 4 skill slots but he's not in because divided is partially hardcoded onto the hero

  10. #10
    Basic Member Physicaque's Avatar
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    Here is the full list courtesy of Cyborgmatt. http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/commen..._draft/cf7kp7b

    Beastmaster
    Chen
    Doom
    Earth Spirit
    Ember Spirit
    Invoker
    Keeper of the Light
    Lone Druid
    Meepo
    Morphling
    Ogre Magi
    Phoenix
    Puck
    Rubick
    Shadow Demon
    Shadow Fiend
    Templar Assassin
    Terrorblade
    Troll Warlord
    Wisp

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