Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 59

Thread: MMR very low after calibration, even after winning 9 out of 10 games

  1. #31
    Basic Member Shmendrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    2,579
    1k?...some webpages are 10 times that size X)...

    10 players of which each one can be (1xx something?) each with 6 slots, with potential...again like hundred items? Most heros with atleast 2 potential roles, 3 lanes+jungle+ancients in which they can play as different roles, and all is affected by the opposite team as well, their choices...and ACTIONS trough the game..and the TIME at which they do them (Courier bought at minute 6 is not as good as courier bought at minute 0...same as wards and even more SO if they have heros like sb)...I'm no mathematician but thats....a hellalot variables to take in to consideration.

    Is it possible to implement? Yeah!...maybe..with a huge budget, patience and a really good and experienced team who knows a lot about programming, hopefully a lot about DotA, and backed up by some really good mathematicians.

    Is it EASY to implement? no way in HELL!

    is it possible to balance? Probably not. In the end when you are programming you still need to decide what value of "Experience" or "skill" you are going to give or remove from each potential action.

    And dont take it personal, I dont care who says what, I appreciate if you supported me on the other thread but I only support on stuff I believe, sometimes I agree with people sometimes I disagree with them, regardless of whether I like them or not....and tot ell you the truth 99% of the time I dont even see the name of the poster X) and this was that case too.
    Last edited by Shmendrich; 07-11-2014 at 03:48 AM.
    Make a NON automated report system.
    I would rather wait 10 minutes for a balanced, fun and exciting match that will last 1+ hours. Than wait 10 seconds for a poorly balanced crapmatch that will end in 30- minutes
    Valve, How I'm I supposed to respect certain boundaries to prevent a mute if I dont know them because they are different for each and every person on each and every game I play?
    The only type of player that dislikes having his stats public are the players that suck and cheaters

  2. #32
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    251
    Quote Originally Posted by Shmendrich View Post
    1k?...some webpages are 20 times that size X)...
    Dude what are you smoking that you even feel the need to critize this. I was just asking if you expect me to post the complete code for this. Who cares how much lines the final code has for a strong mmr analysis ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shmendrich View Post
    10 players of which each one can be (1xx something?) each with 6 slots, with potential...again like hundred items? Most heros with atleast 2 potential roles, 3 lanes+jungle+ancients in which they can play as different roles, and all is affected by the opposite team as well, their choices...and ACTIONS trough the game..and the TIME at which they do them (Courier bought at minute 6 is not as good as courier bought at minute 0...same as wards and even more SO if they have heros like sb)...I'm no mathematician but thats....a hellalot variables to take in to consideration.

    Is it possible to implement? Yeah!...maybe..with a huge budget, patience and a really good and experienced team who knows a lot about programming, hopefully a lot about DotA, and backed up by some really good mathematicians.
    Never Said its easy to implement. I SAID ITS EASY TO DIFFERENTIATE THE ROLES NOT the whole analysis is easy

    And to budget. Valve just made around 30 mil with the international so they have engough money to do it

    Do me a favor and go in another thread with your Rage

  3. #33
    Basic Member Shmendrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    2,579
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisti View Post
    Dude what are you smoking that you even feel the need to critize this. I was just asking if you expect me to post the complete code for this. Who cares how much lines the final code has for a strong mmr analysis ?

    It IS important to differentiate that this can NOT be done in mere 1 thousand lines of code, particularly when you are making it sound that simple... By showing a poor example of a case statement that you would probably use for a 1+1 calculator you are undermining the actual work a real MM system needs and spreading misinformation about what programming is like.

    Do they have the money? Definitively, Will they invest it for something that will not bring them more players? (And might actually scare suckers off (which is most of the playerbase))? Which would of course reduce the amount of items they sell
    Also considering the fact that they have such an slow development of heros, systems, and with little to no testing...Its very unlikely they'll invest 1 more penny in a decent MM system.

    I would LOVE if DotA2 got more love from Valve, but I'm afraid its likely we'll only get more hats and similar things.
    Last edited by Shmendrich; 07-11-2014 at 04:35 AM.
    Make a NON automated report system.
    I would rather wait 10 minutes for a balanced, fun and exciting match that will last 1+ hours. Than wait 10 seconds for a poorly balanced crapmatch that will end in 30- minutes
    Valve, How I'm I supposed to respect certain boundaries to prevent a mute if I dont know them because they are different for each and every person on each and every game I play?
    The only type of player that dislikes having his stats public are the players that suck and cheaters

  4. #34
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    251
    Wow now you just read half of my Posts.

    i try it again i make it bold for you

    THIS WAS AN EXAMPLE ON HOW EASY IT IS TO DIFFERENTIATE THE ROLES


    Show me where i wrote the whole analysis is easy. Never said that.

    Dont understand why you even argue with me. You also said that the current system is bad.
    I was just answering someone who said its impossible to implement because you cant differentiate the roles.
    And my Way to easy example showed him that its possible since the roles of each hero are already known

    I would understand if you would argue that you can play a heroe in a role that he isnt supposed to be and the system would fail to calculate your mmr correct then (example Wraith King plays support which is valid but not his original main role) but your arent doing it.

    I advise you to read my first post in the thread again and the post above it to get some context.
    Otherwise plz stop posting your non related bs
    Last edited by Raisti; 07-11-2014 at 05:06 AM.

  5. #35
    Basic Member Kryil-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    8,065
    How are Shmendrichs post unrelated? You can't just post 5 possible stats to track and say: look, it's so easy!
    Your current approach would suck. You need to track a lot more. And when you think about how to track a lot more, you'll see that it's not easy at all. You'll miss tons of possible stats to track and rate people unfair. That's what he said and that's a legit problem.
    If you think I've closed or deleted a post unjustified, feel free to PM me and I'll explain it to you/discuss it with you further.

  6. #36
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    251
    Kyril you also dont get the Context.

    I make it Really easy for you all

    totemizer wrote : "Computers can't differentiate between roles ....."
    I wrote Example that shows differentiation between Roles


    You 2 argue about what i track in the example .
    THE EXAMPLE IS ONLY ABOUT DIFFERENTIATION OF THE ROLES

    cant make it more easy.

    So now plz tell where you bitching about my example is related when the example isnt about what to track its only about how to distinguish roles that are already known.

    I also realize that Stats for each Role are much more than what i posted.

    And before you start writing about You can play a carry heroe as support i quote myself:
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisti View Post
    I would understand if you would argue that you can play a heroe in a role that he isnt supposed to be and the system would fail to calculate your mmr correct then (example Wraith King plays support which is valid but not his original main role) but your arent doing it.
    I make it even simpler for you 2 i rewrite my example

    Select Case HeroeRole
    Case Carry
    Monitor ALL Carry Stats
    Case Support
    Monitor ALL Support Stats
    Case Tank
    Monitor ALL Tank Stats
    Case Pusher
    Monitor ALL Pusher Stats
    End Select

    Hope you finally get it now that its not about what to track
    Last edited by Raisti; 07-11-2014 at 06:21 AM.

  7. #37
    Basic Member Kryil-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    8,065
    And where do you get the case switch from?
    If you think I've closed or deleted a post unjustified, feel free to PM me and I'll explain it to you/discuss it with you further.

  8. #38
    Basic Member hoveringmover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    2,509
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisti View Post
    Wow you must be a real bad programmer if you say computers cant differentiate the roles.

    The roles are already known as you can see in the picking phase. You have symbols for carry, support, tank and so on on every heroe card.

    And now i show you a programming trick (vb.net) how to monitor different values depening on roll

    Select Case HeroeRole
    Case Carry
    Monitor HeroeDmg .....
    Case Support
    Monitor HealingDone, WardsPlaced .....
    Case Tank
    Monitor DmgTaken ...
    Case Pusher
    Monitor TowerDmg ...
    End Select


    Isnt that hard right :P

    /edit
    The only Reason i can think of why the didnt implement it is that this system might make it easier to gain mmr with certain roles than with others.
    For example its way easier to plant a ward than to do heroedmg

    But this is all only a matter of balancing it out correctly and Valve has engough data to do it
    Hero healing is enough. Wards could be anyone. Riki or Slark make great warding heroes, but they aren't big on healing their allies. Slark can make good use of Urn of Shadows of course, and Riki does just fine with a Mekansm, but healing allies isn't in their skill sets. They are escape heroes, so I'm not sure what you would measure for that. At any rate, they have stats in console already for total duration of stuns and total duration of slows. They could measure that for supports since a lot of the more popular supports specialize in disabling, rather than only measuring healing, which for all you know could be over-healing.

    I do think that some programmers think this game is a first person shooter and that only kills and damage in the name of killing is important. They're simply not aware of how complex the game is. The fact of the matter is that damage has been done to over 8 million accounts. A reset is called for.

    Back to Riki, Slark, and even heroes like Faceless Void, they have their own types of disables. These can be measured. With Slark's pounce, I don't think they have that in the console yet, but Riki's silence and slow time is in there, and at least Timelock's stun time is in there, if not also the Chronosphere stun time. And his first skill also has a slow and gives more information to analyze. Now here's another point, a set of heroes might be slowed by Timewalk but for most of the slow they might be stunned by a Chronosphere, if this happens regularly(I don't think they would have thought to write code that would check for this yet, although it's conceivable they already have something that could be adapted to this) then it would have to mean the Faceless Void is being played as a carry, in which case we will want to look at hero damage and see how high it is. At any rate, the stats are there for any hero to be played as a carry or support, and we know the reason they are scared to deal with this is because it's too complicated for their feeble minds that only understand the simple video games.
    Last edited by hoveringmover; 07-11-2014 at 07:20 AM.
    I will mercilessly add to my ignore list anyone that makes an incredibly annoying signature.

  9. #39
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    251
    Quote Originally Posted by Kryil- View Post
    And where do you get the case switch from?
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisti View Post
    The roles are already known as you can see in the picking phase. You have symbols for carry, support, tank and so on on every hero card.

    Can you plz stop posting without reading anything.
    As i said in my First post where also the example first appeared
    The Roles for each hero are already known and are printend on the hero Card at picking stage.

    There you have your basis for the case switch.
    Only time it fails is when you played a hero in a role which isnt his mainrole which i also already pointed out (But i am confident that you point out this flaw in your next post because the 4 times i did already pointed this out you surely havent read)
    but a skilled programmer could also capture such case.
    Last edited by Raisti; 07-11-2014 at 07:30 AM.

  10. #40
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisti View Post
    Can you plz stop posting without reading anything.
    Problem is, you are the one who is not reading. I gave two common arguments against what I wrote, and for each argument I gave my counterarguments. So I actually never ever said that computers can't differentiate between roles. That was just something people say to me when I ask why the mmr system sucks.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •