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Thread: Massive 5.5 Gig update, after downloading the new mod tools.

  1. #21
    Basic Member Crowfeather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhox View Post
    Aha. Saying "you have no clue" is now the same as calling you a motherfucker and saying you'd have a narcisstic disorder?
    wtf!!

    No I am saying your attitude and actions lead to the conclusion

    Oh you were talking about the Explorer? Nice for you. I wasn't. So it doesn't matter.

    Its part of the "index speed" -- amazing the word "index" in this context obviously refers to databasing of files,but YOLO



    Not quite right. Yes, the few MB of your NTFS driver indeed localize that file. But it is being localized on the HDD, NOT from the memory of the SSD. The OS does NOT have any handle nor index to that file stored on the SSD. That means, to find where the data of the file is stored, it has to go through the File System on the HDD, using seek operations to various places until it finds your multiple file fragments. THESE are very slow on HDDs though, that's why you have to defragment them from time to time. On an SSD it doesn't matter if two sets of data are stored right next to each other or you have to seek through the entire disk to find the other data. The entire file index is being stored on the HDD, so having your OS on your SSD won't make any application on the HDD start faster in that aspect (but in a different aspect: Applications use a lot of Windows Library files that need to be loaded, so those can be loaded a lot faster).

    You have to defragment hardrives due to data storage degradation. To read the Disk you have to go along with it, with flash memory as long as the location is known (the reference) it can be instantly called. Therefore the reason why the seek time is different has nothing to do with a File system its the way in which the memory is read.

    Also you basically explained what I've already said. ----OS calls information - HDD or SDD finds information. OS compiles it.
    Well done so there are seek times for the OS and seek times for the HDD/SDD
    Exactly what I've been saying. So having the OS on your SSD will improve the loading speed of every program. Congratulations....


    You are believing in myths. My SSD lives for 3 years already with VERY EXCESSIVE use. It doesn't have any issues. In fact, what you state is a myth based on one single memory manufacturer who once had this issue.
    Apart from this, saying you should install your OS on your SSD counters your own arguments since it includes various directories for temporary files.
    In fact, even if I installed Firefox on my HDD, it would still store all of its cache files on the %appdata% directory on the SSD.
    So if you really believe in your argument, you should definitely NOT install your OS on the SSD.
    Good for you, you don't treat your SSD correctly. Maybe your SSD is based off of Dram, then it'd make sense why you seem to have infinite write cycles.
    Even when you install your OS for your SSD you then obviously move the temporary folder locations/Derp also that's why you set it to store on your HDD, you shouldn't set your HDD as your primary drive for installation its so much hassle that way



    To be pushed on the RAM it requires the data to be read from the Drive first. Dota 2 weighs 10 GB. It's pretty obvious that it won't have all those 10 GB stored in RAM (especially since it would drastically increase starting times).
    Its pretty obvious it doesn't recall all that information in 1 load. The majority of that is models, models are loaded and rendered in game. The resources that are loaded are the UI (different screens/menu) - the engine - and possibly the map. When you load into the game after finding a match or lobby it will then load the rest of the data. Derp the majority of that 10gb is hats which you will never see. The cosmetics etc you can see are still just stored as files. You can call them whenever it makes no difference. Its load is negligible. It'd be stupid for any program to load 10gb of data on initialization.


    Let me guess: On low graphic settings? It obviously makes a big difference whether you're loading 1000 images of 500 KB per file, or 1000 images of 50 KB per file.
    And yes, since I am often testing in Dota 2 and starting the game up to 50 times per day on days where I am testing, Even 1 second starting time reduction feels already so much better.



    So everything I did was completely fine. Nice. Why even reply then?
    You are complaining about SSD space, so just remove the apps since the change in load time is negligible as its already increased by OS being on the SSD



    I don't care about loading speed of websites. I simply don't want to have to wait 30 seconds for Firefox to start. I want to click on the button and be instantly able to use it.

    That's really dumb

    All the tiny applications don't even fill 500 MB so they don't really matter. And I need the big applications like Cinema 4D, Photoshop and Maya to start quickly.

    Why?

    I own a Hybrid Drive in my laptop

    So why the fuck are you complaining about lacking SSD space. A Hybrid drive should be sufficient
    Derp obviously you don't want to take advice, rather you use it as an opportunity to attempt to massage your own ego and "far superior knowledge to everyone on everything" since you have some form of narcissistic disorder.
    Last edited by Crowfeather; 08-07-2014 at 12:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Typhox View Post
    Nope. Windows Explorer is not a database
    Take a look into the mirror! You think you are completely unfailable. With your limited knowledge, you think that you know more than someone who is very deep in the matter/an expert.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    No I am saying your attitude and actions lead to the conclusion
    Do you even realize that you do exactly what you claim I would be doing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    Its part of the "index speed" -- amazing the word "index" in this context obviously refers to databasing of files,but YOLO
    Databasing of files is unrelated to the Windows Explorer. I could guess you meant the Windows Search Indexer instead, but that would only be a guess and you hate it when I guess. Anyway, the Search Indexer wouldn't be related to starting-times of application.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    You have to defragment hardrives due to data storage degradation. To read the Disk you have to go along with it, with flash memory as long as the location is known (the reference) it can be instantly called. Therefore the reason why the seek time is different has nothing to do with a File system its the way in which the memory is read.
    The way in which the memory is read is 100% determined by the file system, so your sentence makes 0 sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    Also you basically explained what I've already said. ----OS calls information - HDD or SDD finds information. OS compiles it.
    Well done so there are seek times for the OS and seek times for the HDD/SDD
    The seek times for the OS are in RAM and thus are completely negligible. The seek times for the HDD/SDD obviously differ extremely from that. Thus you are supporting my theory. I don't know why you are posting this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    Exactly what I've been saying. So having the OS on your SSD will improve the loading speed of every program. Congratulations....
    I never said anything different. You however said that having other programs on the SSD would not significantly speed up the loading process. And that's plain bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    Good for you, you don't treat your SSD correctly. Maybe your SSD is based off of Dram, then it'd make sense why you seem to have infinite write cycles.
    Look, you come with a claim and you can't back it up.
    http://lifehacker.com/every-modern-s...d-li-826840082

    A test I just made:


    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    You are complaining about SSD space, so just remove the apps since the change in load time is negligible as its already increased by OS being on the SSD
    A 1000%+ increase in load speed is everything but negligible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    Derp obviously you don't want to take advice, rather you use it as an opportunity to attempt to massage your own ego and "far superior knowledge to everyone on everything" since you have some form of narcissistic disorder.
    No, I simply don't take advice that's backed up by claims that are proven wrong. I am not as stupid as you think I would be.
    And the one with the high ego who thinks that he has "far superior knowledge to everyone on everything" is clearly you, since you constantly pretend you knew everything better.

    Look into the mirror!

  3. #23
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    I wonder if they will release new game to show off Source 2, or they will just port some of their existing games on it.
    Possible solution to foreigners issue
    In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war.

  4. #24
    Basic Member Crowfeather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhox View Post
    Do you even realize that you do exactly what you claim I would be doing?



    Databasing of files is unrelated to the Windows Explorer. I could guess you meant the Windows Search Indexer instead, but that would only be a guess and you hate it when I guess. Anyway, the Search Indexer wouldn't be related to starting-times of application.
    When using Windows explorer to view files etc this is a database. Congratulations on the new word



    The way in which the memory is read is 100% determined by the file system, so your sentence makes 0 sense.
    You'd already agreed with me Flash Memory can recall memory as memory location is known. HDD memory it has to reach the memory through reading the disk


    The seek times for the OS are in RAM and thus are completely negligible. The seek times for the HDD/SDD obviously differ extremely from that. Thus you are supporting my theory. I don't know why you are posting this.
    My point still stands


    I never said anything different. You however said that having other programs on the SSD would not significantly speed up the loading process. And that's plain bullshit.
    Not significantly no it wouldn't.


    Look, you come with a claim and you can't back it up.
    http://lifehacker.com/every-modern-s...d-li-826840082
    Oh look an article on an unreliable site. Congratz
    A test I just made:




    A 1000%+ increase in load speed is everything but negligible.
    Based on information from a shitty hard drive vs a good SDD or a shitty SDD vs a good hardrive. The point is the quality of the respective disk comes into play, so you can't make those comparisons fairly.


    No, I simply don't take advice that's backed up by claims that are proven wrong. I am not as stupid as you think I would be.
    And the one with the high ego who thinks that he has "far superior knowledge to everyone on everything" is clearly you, since you constantly pretend you knew everything better.

    Look into the mirror!
    Its obvious you just want another pissing match Which is with every argument I have with you, even when I build up on blocks of knowledge that you agree with you then ignore the normal logical conclusion because it doens't suit your original interpretation.
    Also you ignored my point that the lifespan of your SSD will be unaffected by constantly writing to it if its DRAM based. Which your's probably is if it has 8 years life span. 8 years of constant use is longer than the average HDD. Crazy shit ....

    I'm not going to bother continuing this as I don't want another week ruined with hour long conversations. (Such like the ones I used to have with you as when I was explaining the basics of balancing and we built upon blocks of agreed knowledge then you'd ignore the conclusion drawn even though you agreed with everything that supported the conclusion and you gave no alternative)

    Derppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp

    Also your quoted article only proves my point anyway. It says "More ram = longer lasting SSD/better system performance" Congratulations....
    Enjoy
    Quote Originally Posted by Typhox View Post
    Nope. Windows Explorer is not a database
    Take a look into the mirror! You think you are completely unfailable. With your limited knowledge, you think that you know more than someone who is very deep in the matter/an expert.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    When using Windows explorer to view files etc this is a database. Congratulations on the new word
    Nope. Windows Explorer is not a database.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    Oh look an article on an unreliable site. Congratz
    It's just showing you that everyone who researched on that topic came to the same result as me.
    You were just too lazy to research. Not my fault.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    You'd already agreed with me Flash Memory can recall memory as memory location is known. HDD memory it has to reach the memory through reading the disk
    And still the HDD needs to know where the data is stored on its disc. Does the OS give it a memory-address? No. The FileSystem does. Not like it matters anyway, because you just agreed that an SSD is indeed faster than a HDD in terms of reading data. So I don't get why you are still arguing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    Not significantly no it wouldn't.
    It "wouldn't"? No, it DOES! Since when is it not a significant difference whether my application starts within 1 second or within 5 seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    Based on information from a shitty hard drive vs a good SDD or a shitty SDD vs a good hardrive. The point is the quality of the respective disk comes into play, so you can't make those comparisons fairly.
    And still YOU make those comparisions. And it's actually based on infromation from a decent Hard Drive vs a decent SSD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    Its obvious you just want another pissing match Which is with every argument I have with you, even when I build up on blocks of knowledge that you agree with you then ignore the normal logical conclusion because it doens't suit your original interpretation.
    Take a look into the mirror! You think you are completely unfailable. With your limited knowledge, you think that you know more than someone who is very deep in the matter/an expert. You have some serious issues.
    The difference between the way you argue and me, is that I know pretty well what I don't know, whereas you simply pretend you knew everything even though you clearly have no clue about a lot of stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    Also you ignored my point that the lifespan of your SSD will be unaffected by constantly writing to it if its DRAM based.
    If it was like this, you wouldn't even have needed to start this entire discussion and attacking me, because you could have simply asked first for the type of my memory. You claim this was a "pissing contest", but you are the guy who constantly tries to accuse me of things. There was no requirement at all for you to start with this discussion. If you'd really want to give me advice, you'd have had mentioned the DRAM thing right in the beginning before coming with your accusations.

    Either way though, my SSD is Synchronous NAND. Furthermore, you still lack any source about SSDs having a low lifespan. You are complaining about my unreliable sources just quoting random people, however you only quoted yourself so far. In the meantime I read some more articles about SSD lifetimes. The lifetime issue is a myth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    I'm not going to bother continuing this as I don't want another week ruined with hour long conversations. (Such like the ones I used to have with you as when I was explaining the basics of balancing and we built upon blocks of agreed knowledge then you'd ignore the conclusion drawn even though you agreed with everything that supported the conclusion and you gave no alternative)
    We never agreed. You just made very silly statements and arguments. You accuse me of using my SSD wrong. You were wrong. You don't want to admit that you were wrong, because in your brain you think you are always right. You blame me.

    Just stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    Also your quoted article only proves my point anyway. It says "More ram = longer lasting SSD/better system performance" Congratulations....
    Enjoy
    I have 16 GB ram. Of course it increases performance, because applications can store more stuff in RAM and don't need to read things multiple times. Unfortunately, many software - and this includes Dota 2 - is still running on 32 bit so it's really pointless.



    I'm sorry that you have a shitty computer and can only dream of an SSD.
    But that's clearly not my fault.
    Last edited by Typhox; 08-07-2014 at 02:21 PM.

  6. #26
    Basic Member Noya's Avatar
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    pony and dragon calm down and take it to PMs nobody cares

  7. #27
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    SSDs are well past the point where you should actually care what you install onto them, even with hardcore use of SSDs the time it takes for the drive to die is well past the point when you'd change it for something else anyway. It used to be different. I wouldn't be surprised if a fair chunk of SSD users are running them in IDE instead of AHCI.

    But yeah, they could say it better that the actual file size is 6GB-somethings. I actually wanted to open the map to see all the exact locations of triggers and whatnot, couldn't see the creepcamp spawn checkboxes right away though. Maybe it is under some visibility filter option or then it is the "agrorange" trigger I was looking at around the camps and not every functionality is implemented as of yet.

  8. #28
    Basic Member Crowfeather's Avatar
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    Couldn't help myself I just laughed so much.
    https://www.microsoft.com/resources/....mspx?mfr=true

    database
    ˈdeɪtəbeɪs/Submit
    noun
    a structured set of data held in a computer, especially one that is accessible in various ways.
    "a database covering nine million workers"

    Quote Originally Posted by Typhox View Post
    Nope. Windows Explorer is not a database
    Take a look into the mirror! You think you are completely unfailable. With your limited knowledge, you think that you know more than someone who is very deep in the matter/an expert.
    That is sig worthy.


    Side note going to University and being mid way through a "Game Design degree" does not make you an expert at Tech. That's what CS degree exists for. A game design degree is basically a cop out.

    Crushed dreams http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/commen...s_worth_while/
    Last edited by Crowfeather; 08-08-2014 at 05:49 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Typhox View Post
    Nope. Windows Explorer is not a database
    Take a look into the mirror! You think you are completely unfailable. With your limited knowledge, you think that you know more than someone who is very deep in the matter/an expert.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noya View Post
    pony and dragon calm down and take it to PMs nobody cares
    agree, take your hardware discussion crap out of dota related topics. Other than that- buy yourself a 512gb ssd and stop whining for hecks sake. A crucial mx100 512gb costs around 200 dollars.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    Couldn't help myself I just laughed so much.
    https://www.microsoft.com/resources/....mspx?mfr=true

    database
    ˈdeɪtəbeɪs/Submit
    noun
    a structured set of data held in a computer, especially one that is accessible in various ways.
    "a database covering nine million workers"
    That is sig worthy.
    Only your stupidity is sig worthy. The Windows Explorer is only a viewer for a database (which is your File System in this case). The article you provided exactly confirmed me here.
    I think you are a really sad person not even knowing what a database is XDDD. You mistake a program that only displays data from a different source, with the actual data. I mean, how bad can someone be at computers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    Side note going to University and being mid way through a "Game Design degree" does not make you an expert at Tech. That's what CS degree exists for. A game design degree is basically a cop out.
    It's not a GameDesign degree. It's just a normal Bachelor of Science.
    And btw I don't have my knowledge from this university, I have it from researching and programming. You have your knowledge from no place, right?
    You just make everything up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    "Get a programming degree" - funny thing, that's what I will finish with.

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