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Thread: Ban Rikimaru because of Permanent Invisibility

  1. #21
    Volunteer Moderator bu3ny's Avatar
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    Are you really implying that detection range of sentries or dust is small so you won't hit enemies with that when they cast spells nearby? What you said only goes for spells with huge range like tinker's rockets. Else it is the same.....
    You aren't supposed to hit invisible units with spells, you are supposed to use detection.
    Please, just call me buny.

  2. #22
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    No, we're not talking about the range of detection - its all about the situation when you don't have the detection at current location. In normal modes riki goes out of invisibility to inflict damage so he can be attacked at that moment so he won't just randomly attack a group without consequences. In AD invis holder can check out if enemies have some wards or dust on them and if they don't just kill one of them without getting any damage. With good spells he can snowball so much he's 5 levels above others and at that point the enemy starts spamming detection everywhere to counter him but its too late.


    Its obvious you should counter invis with detection but that's not what are we talking about - you can't do that everywhere while having proper items. Check out AD games with riki stats - most of the games ends up with invis holder dominating the game. And that is in numbers - you either get to counter him early and waste gold everywhere on each lane or you get ganked. It's a win-win situation for invis holder.

  3. #23
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    I don't see the problem. Just buy dust and take some good nukes/stuns before the PI guy can pick them all. It's not nearly as strong as Divided We Stand where ANY skill that did damage was OP with it.

  4. #24
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    I said it before - I'm not against it - the problem is with countering in picking phase. Until there's chat or some other way of communication about picking diffrent than voice there will be problem with talking about the picking counters and tactics.

    The fact is that currently you don't get to play good match made full of people who counter and take detection in this "fun only" mode.

    Riki's invis is a little better by most specs which makes playing with it really easy which just a little but breaks the balance and makes snowballing easy for him. I wouldn't remove him, I'd just make his ulti break when casting non riki spells.

  5. #25
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    Permanent Invisibility isn't a ulti but a normal skill. (Was changed in one of the recent patches.)
    The fade time is also incredible long at early levels (8/6/4/2 seconds fade time).

    Which means that if you max permanent invisibility early you won't have points to spend on your other spells. If you however only skill permanent invisibility once you have a very long fade time and it would take a very long time to go invisible. This means you are easier to kill when you are farming in the early game phase.

    I would chose Bounty Hunter's Windwalk (20 sec cooldown; but does backstab damage) or even Clinkz' Windwalk (15 sec cooldown; increases movement speed) over Permanent Invisibility any time. They can do the same thing as Permanent Invisibility users (use spells/items and cast Windwalk immediately after). The only way to disable them without dust/sentry/gem is to get an instantaneous spell/item so they cannot cast Windwalk. Only Scythe of Vyse/Eul has no cast time or projectile speed.

    If you are struggling a lot because of spell casters using permanent invisibility imagine them taking Windwalk of Bh or Clinkz which is arguably more powerful.

    I just don't see how permanent invisibility is strong. If you are struggling with it get better and you will learn how to deal with it. There is a reason why many heroes often take Blink Dagger over Shadow Blade.
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  6. #26
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    Fade time is long but you can take one level and go for the other skills and attack with them only. So you're missing the point - if you're caster with lets say zeus chain lightning or bristleback's spikes you can stay invis and lasthit if not countered with detection OR you can just get one level of invis and play it cool farming like standard support/caster/nuker and wait till you get enough spells and then start your invis snowballing. I can lane versus guyz with this invis but most of the time its like the other lanes get so much outfarmed we loose after laning stage when the invis guy starts his hunting.

    And for the record - when you take invis first you most likely get to have up to one powerful spamming spell if other players counter your picks so there's no really a problem of not having points to spend on other spells.

  7. #27
    Volunteer Moderator bu3ny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaperPL View Post
    Fade time is long but you can take one level and go for the other skills and attack with them only. So you're missing the point - if you're caster with lets say zeus chain lightning or bristleback's spikes you can stay invis and lasthit if not countered with detection OR you can just get one level of invis and play it cool farming like standard support/caster/nuker and wait till you get enough spells and then start your invis snowballing. I can lane versus guyz with this invis but most of the time its like the other lanes get so much outfarmed we loose after laning stage when the invis guy starts his hunting.

    And for the record - when you take invis first you most likely get to have up to one powerful spamming spell if other players counter your picks so there's no really a problem of not having points to spend on other spells.
    If you are getting spells like quills or arc lightning, then you aren't a danger at all. It would take too long to kill someone with such spells. And they don't secure last hitting well either, especially early on, where every damaging spell can leave you oom when you use them to last hit.
    Please, just call me buny.

  8. #28
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    itt: people who dont play AD talk about AD.

    Anybody who have played +10 AD games will know how full of bullshit a lot of the posters in this thread are.

  9. #29
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    +1 to that.

    The biggest problem is that closed loop of thinking -> its fun only mode -> you don't need a balance really -> lets not fix it, leave it like that -> mode is unbalanced -> lets say its non-competetive/fun only.
    And like you said - a lot of guyz who don't play AD too often come here to say its ok like that cause they don't want devs "wasting" their time on this mode.

    @bu3ny - you're right - I chose a bad example, but there are still spells that can do a lot damage by themselves.

  10. #30
    Basic Member matthe2's Avatar
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    In 95% of all cases you can combine Permanent Invisibility with heavy nukes. People mostly try to pick passives or single strong spells leaving your nearly always with nice nukes to play around. You usually would not even dare to pick quill spray, nazal goo or arc lightning, unless you have some other spells which synergize with it well like Shaker passive, BB ultimate, OD passive or Lina passive. Except that they are very useless in AD and should be considered lower tier stuff.

    So yeah:

    I want to request another mod for this thread. The current one doesn't play the mode at all and does not understand anything. He is unfit for this position.

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