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Thread: [Suggestion] Remove ability to see an enemies mana by clicking on them

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Azzorf View Post
    It would, at lower level skill ranges.

    At higher level it really doesnt matter, if youre a good player you can look at enemy mana in 1 second, really doenst make much diference.

    But for newer and bad players it really changes things, cau for them it would took more than that. Would make the learning curve better too, mid range and lower range skill players would be closer.
    Why would it take longer for new players to click on an enemy hero? Being new doesn't mean you take more time to perform the simple task of selecting an enemy.

    And, as I've said before, new players won't be able to make good use of knowing how much mana an opponent has, because they won't be familiar with how much mana skills cost, or what those skills do.

  2. #82
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    no, it's not like saying that at all. maybe if dota never had health bars and it was a part of the game to click to check hp aswell, but that's not the case.

  3. #83
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    Don't how can you see if they will still can cast a spell or not

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol Invictus View Post
    I appreciate that you think you're special because you can characterize anyone who disagrees with you as a mindlessly stubborn "purist" with the attitude of a grumpy 80-year-old. Unfortunately, that doesn't make you the herald of truth. Why don't you just refute their arguments, and if they don't have any, say so and/or ignore them. Instead, you seem to prefer taking every opportunity you can to make personal attacks that do nothing to prove your point.
    I'm pretty sure I was referring to someone who was taking less time to provide less valuable responses; I did link to their post. As far as I can tell, I'm making reasonable points, including the one you chopped that part out of, considering you quote from it further down. I don't think at any point I've said "I'm right, you're wrong", but taking offense to people being called inferior because they prefer functionality in other games. Taking the rest of the quote you referenced:

    Very simple UI concepts are being discussed here, the argument for keeping things the way they are inevitably devolves to bluffing enemies, which doesn't work on, as you say 'the dota players'. I also respect the fact that you feel that LoL and HoN players are gibbering idiots, but that doesn't really seem relevant. That Dota genre expanded with LoL and HoN isn't a bastardization of the genre. Perhaps you think that reconnecting to existing games is an idea that sprang out of Valve and icefrog's head uninvited? Ingame voice chat, mayhaps an innovative Dota creation?
    My apologies for being irritated with people that consider playing similar games lessers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol Invictus View Post
    ...changes from the starting point should only be made if they are good changes; otherwise, they should remain untouched. In my opinion, this is not a good change.

    ...

    Based on personal experience, I disagree. All I can say is that if overhead mana bars were to be added, I would find playing the game so much easier. No, not just more convenient. The game would simply be easier. So maybe it's a personal thing, as I can't speak for anyone else, but I think adding overhead mana bars would affect the gameplay itself rather than simply being a UI convenience.
    You disagree, but with what? The argument that bluffing is the only reason given thus far for keeping mana bars hidden?

    How would it affect gameplay negatively from your perspective? How does it make the game easier from a mechanical standpoint?

    I think I would have less of a problem with clicking on enemy heroes if doing so didn't make me lose focus on my own hero, and kept track of my selection so I could move my hero and view their mana/items simultaneously. Dota2 seems to add fighting with the UI to the other tasks I'm doing in lane. I'd rather it didn't.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian_Black View Post
    You disagree, but with what? The argument that bluffing is the only reason given thus far for keeping mana bars hidden?
    No, I disagree with the argument that bluffing doesn't work or isn't a part of the game, whether competitive or not. In my opinion, mindgames are part of the game, and they do occur, at least in my experience.

    How would it affect gameplay negatively from your perspective? How does it make the game easier from a mechanical standpoint?
    It would affect gameplay negatively because it would make the game easier (again, not to be confused with "more convenient"). It makes the game easier because you no longer have to take the time to select the enemy hero(es), which IMO is quite significant, at least in high-action situations such as ganking. Not only does it require you to click the enemy, it also deselects your own hero (as you mentioned), which requires you to be careful managing your own hero while you select the enemies. With overhead mana bars, all of this disappears. There is no need to ever deselect your hero; one look at the enemy hero(es) and you instantly have the information that would have otherwise cost precious time - a few seconds or even fractions of a second can be extremely significant in such situations.

    Just as an example, suppose you are Magina and you want to use your ultimate on a group of heroes close to each other. Obviously you want to use it on the unit with the most mana missing, to deal the most damage. If there are overhead mana bars, you can blink in without hesitation and immediately click the one you know has the least mana, all in one smooth motion with barely any delay. On the other hand, without overhead mana bars, you have to check each enemy hero individually to figure out which one to cast your ultimate on. And that extra time could be very valuable.

    I think I would have less of a problem with clicking on enemy heroes if doing so didn't make me lose focus on my own hero, and kept track of my selection so I could move my hero and view their mana/items simultaneously. Dota2 seems to add fighting with the UI to the other tasks I'm doing in lane. I'd rather it didn't.
    That's the point; the fact that viewing enemy mana/items requires you to deselect your hero means that you need to pay attention to what your hero is doing while you aren't in control of it, which means more technical skill is required. By saying you'd rather it didn't, you are saying you want the game to be easier.

    BTW, it is a little easier in Dota 2, because right-clicking automatically re-selects your hero again.

  6. #86
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    +1

  7. #87
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    You are suppose to be able to check out enemys mana by klicking and checking it out, by doing this you loose controll of your hero and you are vulnerable while doing this and it can be worth the risk so you can determin if you want to engage your foe or not.

    Please enough with this mana checking / mana bar bullshit. This is how it should stay and i seriously hope i does stay like this

    !

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by hcolyle View Post
    You are suppose to be able to check out enemys mana by klicking and checking it out, by doing this you loose controll of your hero and you are vulnerable while doing this and it can be worth the risk so you can determin if you want to engage your foe or not.

    Please enough with this mana checking / mana bar bullshit. This is how it should stay and i seriously hope i does stay like this

    !
    Joke's on you, you don't lose control of your hero.

  9. #89
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    In my opinion, the ability to see an opponent's mana by simply clicking on them should be left as what it is now. I'm not being a purist or whatever, but the fact that we are able to do it is already instilled in our game play. Taking myself as an example, I constantly check the opponent's mana, items etc. constantly, to be on a lookout for viable ganks or counter-attacks. In a way, it has helped to boost my awareness of the situation at times. For newbies, they may want to have more information at their hands, so this ability would be good for them, provided they know how to utilise it properly. If Icefrog and Valve were to remove it, I feel that it would make the learning curve more steep for them as they would have to experience in how much mana a certain skill uses. This would be contradictory to what Icefrog had envisioned Dota 2 was to be learned, where the learning curve was not so steep and newbies could be brought into Dota much easier. I'm not saying that Icefrog is supposed to make the game easier than it is now, but rather, I believe such a method of changing game play, would make it much more difficult. For pros, I agree that they don't click on the opponent to check the mana about 90% of the time, but they still do it the other 10%. So in a sense, they still do check for mana, items etc.

  10. #90
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    First problem, Dota 2 is not realistic, though I know what you mean.

    Clicking to show mana is actually pretty balanced. If you think about it in the manner you are, as in realism within fantasy, clicking to show mana does make sense. You can't tell at a glance how much power they have, but if you look at them, closely you can.

    I guess it would be even better if it weren't a completely accurate manacount. I would be down for that.

    Not being able to see mana at all would make playing Antimage almost impossible. You'd basically always be guessing at how much mana an enemy has. There's no way to really use a strategy. It's just random for the most part.

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