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Thread: Bots on human/player side being utterly useless

  1. #1

    Bots on human/player side being utterly useless

    Hello Dev Team,
    with regards to the above, i've had quite a few games where the bots on human side [1 human + 4 bots versus 5 bots] being utterly useless. I am aware there is an open ticket for 'bot passiveness', not sure if this is the same problem.

    Some of the issues briefly:
    • - wont hit creep/towers unless there are other creeps.
    • - repeatedly going back and forth in a lane w/o doing anything [maybe they were scheming something]
    • - tanker/initiator will not initiate or be in front.
    • - once bots group up, they never go solo/break again. [teams of 4s n 5s till the end]


    Most of these issues are for the bots on human side.
    Thank you for your time and excellent effort in development.


    Cheers,
    CreepyCreeky

  2. #2
    I've noticed this problem, too. The enemy bots turn into a cohesive, ultra aggressive kill squad that functions as a single unit—potentially exploitable if the player weren't the only one doing anything. Frequently, the (player's) bots will nervously pace back and forth behind towers as their definition of "defending", while the enemy team plunders, pillages, and destroys everything else. Here's a screenshot of the conclusion of a game on "Easy", which wasn't really easy at all.
    Yes, I know I should probably be able to solo a team of 5, but as I am a newbie, it's difficult to deal with the monstrous assault of having 4-5 ults cast on you at once. o_O

    It may be worth noting that, as much of a newbie as I am, I do actually find unfair to be far "easier" than Easy. I think it may be linked to an issue the OP described, as when I play on Unfair, it seems as if the bots do pull their weight.

    Having one human on each team seems to decrease issues with the bots' IQ, but having two humans on one team is even more so detrimental than a single player—might as well just replace the 3 bots with Larry, Curly, and Moe.
    Last edited by Interrobangin; 01-25-2012 at 01:50 AM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interrobangin View Post
    It may be worth noting that, as much of a newbie as I am, I do actually find unfair to be far "easier" than Easy. I think it may be linked to an issue the OP described, as when I play on Unfair, it seems as if the bots do pull their weight.
    No, you just got combo-owned.
    If your Unfair game had something like Tidehunter, Sven, Lina and Sniper on your team where as on the other team was something like CM, Kunkka, Tiny, Windrunner and Zeus I can pretty much guarantee that the Radiant would win even if you had gone AFK.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Arxos View Post
    No, you just got combo-owned.
    If your Unfair game had something like Tidehunter, Sven, Lina and Sniper on your team where as on the other team was something like CM, Kunkka, Tiny, Windrunner and Zeus I can pretty much guarantee that the Radiant would win even if you had gone AFK.
    Well I didn't say the bots don't do work on unfair—even though I pretty much have to command the pushes solo, which makes the games take a lot longer, but the bots will engage enemies more. Haven't gotten the lineup you've mentioned, but my point is that on easy the bots on a human team are remarkably cowardly, whereas the enemy bots on easy are a relentless killing unit. I seldom get ganked on unfair. But I'm bad at the game and still win around 80% on unfair and less than 10% on easy.
    Perhaps I should start making a log of the lineups I get, as I cannot always remember them. Unfortunately Razor and Tidehunter are frequently, to the best of my recollection, on the enemy team, and I'd say these two are the harbingers of loss for me.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interrobangin View Post
    Well I didn't say the bots don't do work on unfair—even though I pretty much have to command the pushes solo, which makes the games take a lot longer, but the bots will engage enemies more. Haven't gotten the lineup you've mentioned, but my point is that on easy the bots on a human team are remarkably cowardly, whereas the enemy bots on easy are a relentless killing unit. I seldom get ganked on unfair. But I'm bad at the game and still win around 80% on unfair and less than 10% on easy.
    Perhaps I should start making a log of the lineups I get, as I cannot always remember them. Unfortunately Razor and Tidehunter are frequently, to the best of my recollection, on the enemy team, and I'd say these two are the harbingers of loss for me.

    You are seriously claiming that easy bots play better than unfair bots?

    Not sure if trolling....

    I'm gonna play vs easy bots now and watch their uberganks

    Easy
    Reaction times for ability/item usage range from 150-300ms.
    Bots do not try to avoid overlapping stuns.
    Bots do not deny creeps.
    Bots do not harass.
    Bots do not roam or gank.
    Last edited by Django; 01-25-2012 at 05:02 AM.

  6. #6
    Basic Member findus's Avatar
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    BKB and/or Force Staff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arxos View Post
    No, you just got combo-owned.
    If your Unfair game had something like Tidehunter, Sven, Lina and Sniper on your team where as on the other team was something like CM, Kunkka, Tiny, Windrunner and Zeus I can pretty much guarantee that the Radiant would win even if you had gone AFK.
    ^A sniper bot with stygian is a game-breaker. Bots don't know how to react.

    Tidehunter, Sven and Venge will own most games as bots don't adapt their itembuild accordingly.

  8. #8
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    I really think bot pushing needs to be toned down in the lower difficulties. I have a friend who was new to Dota that we were in a bot game with, and it was really disheartening to see him in a lane trying to get the hang of things when the 5 man 10 minute doom pushes comboed him to death multiple times. They could do that on unfair difficulty, seeing as they get extra gold and experience that would balance out the fact that none of them are farming, but on easy difficulty, they should definitely push much later, or push in smaller groups.

  9. #9
    Volunteer Moderator DLRevan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Django View Post
    You are seriously claiming that easy bots play better than unfair bots?

    Not sure if trolling....

    I'm gonna play vs easy bots now and watch their uberganks
    As you noted, the characteristics of Easy bots are:

    Reaction times for ability/item usage range from 150-300ms.
    Bots do not try to avoid overlapping stuns.
    Bots do not deny creeps.
    Bots do not harass.
    Bots do not roam or gank.

    If this is all thats different, Im inclined to believe that easy bots may teamfight better depending on what heroes they're using. Lets just say you have tide, sven, lina and tiny on one team. Since they dont bother to avoid overlapping stuns, they're unload everything they've got on a target. LSA+storm bolt+ava+ravage...your hp instantly drops to a point where lina gets triggered to perform her ulti. Nearly instant death, which may give the impression that easy bots are actually more brutal, although in most cases the outcome would be the same. This would really depend on what heroes the bots are actually using.

    On topic, it does seem to me that bots teamed with heroes are hopelessly confused most of the time. Unfair actually seems to fix this slightly, since your bot teammate tends to suffer less from dying a whole hell lot, having an exp and gold bonus. I suppose it indicates that bots in Dota 2 are very much coded primarily to work in a team, resulting in those astoundingly coordinated killteams, while quite lost operating alone.

  10. #10
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    Completely agree with this topic! I can even be more specific. This bots behavior invoke when some hidden variable tells your bots "We are loosing!". From this time on the ES will jump in and never ult, Tiny will run around and never hit or lay a skill and so on. It is very frustrating =(

    P.S.: Playing only on the Unfair skill level.
    Last edited by skiminokf; 01-27-2012 at 04:16 AM.

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