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Thread: [SUGGESTION] "Beginner" queue, with limited hero pool

  1. #1
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    [SUGGESTION] "Beginner" queue, with limited hero pool

    Dota is a difficult game to learn, mainly for 2 reasons:
    - General Knowledge (IE: map knowledge, item knowledge, etc)
    - Hero Knowledge (IE: what to expect from every hero, visual effects, etc)

    Every game you learn something more about General Knowledge, in a "static" way: the item pool, the neutral camps, the rune spots, etc are the same in every single game of Dota.

    What really raise the learning curve is that every game you'll play with and against different heroes. A lot of heroes have counter-intuitive abilities: abilities whose effects are too difficult or too subtle to guess just by seeing them on action.

    ------------------------------------------------------

    The idea is: let the player chose if he wants to be put in the "beginner" queue. If so, he will be matched with other "beginners" + "coaching" players only, with a limited hero pool...There he could learn the basics of the game in a controlled environement. The hero pool should include heroes that are both relatively easy to play and with a clear team role (IE: support, carry, pusher, etc).

    It won't be bad if we had a "beginner 2.0" or "intermediate" queue, with similar basis and an expanded hero pool too: more heroes with slightly more difficult abilities/roles.

    This way a beginner could learn what a lot of heroes do without being overwhelmed by the whole thing at first.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    While more queues could be a bad thing in a beta, i think this could work with a bigger playerbase.

    The idea is obviously perfectible...what do you think?

  2. #2
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    generally i like this idea. at the moment its really enjoyable with the hero pool and hence the skill visauls rising from week to week, so you can easily adopt to new ones.

    there are some problems though: if you limit the hero pool, there will necessarily be overpowered heroes which cant be countered. additionally you limit the fun people can have at the start in my opinion. in my very first dota i just picked invoker cause i liked the picture of him. i had no clue whatsoever how his invoking worked and my mate laughed at me for picking the mosts complicated hero out of so many. but because of this i loved dota from the very beginning. every other dota was a new experience where you had to realize which hero could do what and which item had whcih effect. often i just died and wondered how the hell that happened again.

    i think there should be an indicator stating whether a hero is easy (aka skeleton king,, bounty hunter,..), intermediate or hard to play, maybe with easy ones blinking up in the selection tab, so people might get more atracted to these heroes. limitating the pool however is not necesarily good for newbies.

  3. #3
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    Good idea imo. This could be combined with some minigames (jungle learning, lasthitting etc)

  4. #4
    Basic Member hsdvo's Avatar
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    what happens when a good player queues beginner...

    and rapes the shit out of everybody

    (how do you know who is a beginner?)

  5. #5
    Require one or two games vs bots, require 5 placement matches vs other players, then use their performance in the placement matches to set up their initial placement in the matchmaking ranking. Just don't allow them back into the beginner queue after their five games.

  6. #6
    Basic Member hsdvo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyFunky View Post
    Require one or two games vs bots, require 5 placement matches vs other players, then use their performance in the placement matches to set up their initial placement in the matchmaking ranking. Just don't allow them back into the beginner queue after their five games.
    not bad, but what if after 5 matches they're still a beginner?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyFunky View Post
    Require one or two games vs bots
    Bots need to be better or there needs to be a co-op queue where you have 5 humans on one side and 5 bots on the other. Right now 1 human + 4 bots vs 5 bots completely depends on what you pick, with hard pushers having the easiest time winning while doing almost nothing resembling what you need to do to win a real game of DoTA (because real humans will constantly gank you if you solo push)

  8. #8
    Basic Member ValeN's Avatar
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    There is already something like that but not with limited pool, that would be stupid.

  9. #9
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    go back to league of legends with your limited hero pool! We dont want that shit in dota 2!

  10. #10
    Basic Member hsdvo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sciaticjam View Post
    go back to league of legends with your limited hero pool! We dont want that shit in dota 2!
    i bet you're the type of player who flames the shit out of a first-timer and says go back to LoL
    then you wonder "why do people play LoL, it's such a shitty game"

    i think a beginner queue could be good,
    it's not like you'd be removing THAT much from the playerbase, i'm sure that 90% of the community will not be first timers, and for the 10%, i think something to ease them into dota would be nice.

    valve did mention that they were working on a lot of tutorial/coaching systems, and i'm sure that something like this could help too.

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