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  1. #1
    Volunteer Moderator slowreflex's Avatar
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    Win/Loss/Abandon Feedback

    To prevent the future creation of lots of duplicate threads about the Win/Loss/Abandon logic, I'm creating this sticky. Put all of your feedback around those topics in this thread only.

    Current Abandon Logic

    If you are disconnected for more than 5 minutes cumulative, you will get an Abandon. This includes multiple instances, like 3 times for 2 minutes each.

    If you're inactive for some time, you will get an Abandon.

    There will be a notification at the time when an Abandon is issued. This means all other players can leave the game without receiving an Abandon. However the game is still rated as a Win or Loss for all of them depending on the outcome.

    If the abandon is issued before any action (e.g. a kill) has happened in the game. An Early Abandon will be issued. In that case the game will not count as a Win or Loss for the other players.

    There will be a notification "player <name> has abandoned the game. the game is safe to leave." at the time when an Abandon is issued.
    In the case of an Early Abandon the notification will read "player <name> has abandoned the game. the game is safe to leave. No stats will be recorded.".


    Inactive Logic

    If you do not participate in a game, you will get an Abandon. That abandon will be either an Early Abandon or a regular abandon depending on the Abandon rules above.

    Not participating in a game includes, but is not necessarily limited to:

    • Not picking your hero and entering the game for more than 1:30 minutes
    • Not participating in any combats, farming, defending, etc for more than 6 minutes. Mining with Techies does not count, meaning you will get an abandon for planting mines for 6 minutes (this is true for all base-spam abilities such as Ice Blast or Rocket Flare)
    • Not getting XP for more than 6 minutes



    Current Win/Loss Logic

    If you abandon a game, you will get a Loss and an Abandon, even if you come back, finish the game and win.

    Safe to Leave games can be left by the rest of the players without receiving an Abandon, the game is still rated as a Win or Loss nevertheless.

    If an Early Abandon is issued, the game will not count as a Win or Loss for either team.

    If there is a server crash (not just your system crashing) it won't count as a Win or Loss for anyone.

    Note: all games will still be listed in your game history as win or loss (or abandon in case you abandoned it yourself).


    Quote Originally Posted by EricTams View Post
    Here are the rules for what happens when there is a leaver in a game:

    Games with the wrong number of players at start never count - not really a problem any more but used to happen occasionally.

    If there is a leaver before any action has occurred then wins/losses are not recorded. There used to be an exception if the team with the leaver manages to win 4v5 but that unfairly punished the team without the leaver.

    If there is a leaver later in the game then wins and losses will be awarded appropriately (the leaver always loses). People can leave if they don't want to play 4v5 and they will not get an abandon point. People who leave after this point will not automatically get a loss like the first leaver but will get a win or a loss based on the outcome of the game.

    Let me know if you have a MatchId where this isn't the case and I'll take a look.

    If you have feedback towards the Report System or the way Low Priority Queue is issued, post in the Commend/Report/Ban Feedback thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by EricTams View Post
    If you have the MatchID for any games where you received an abandon from a bug then please PM them to me.

    Do the following and send this info with the MatchID:
    - Make sure you haven't shared your password with someone else.
    - Watch the whole replay - Note disconnects for any players and what happens with the abandonment countdown.
    - Note any time where players went idle and the duration of that idle.
    - Check your previous game and see if the Abandon was from that game instead.
    Last edited by Kryil-; 02-19-2015 at 02:47 PM.
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  2. #2
    Basic Member ValeN's Avatar
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    Also should add that if any player is booted from game, at any time, due to a server reset or any server side issue that caused someone not to be able to reconnect to the game, it won't be counted for any of the players in there. Keep in mind that server side issue and ISP issue, while it may seem similar in practice, are not the same thing.

    Eric had a recent post somewhere saying that they updated the system. Since slowreflex explanation doesn't agree with the old quote from eric you should add this one too.

    Quote Originally Posted by EricTams View Post
    This was but is no longer the case. Currently a game that has a leaver before action starts doesn't count except as an abandoned game from the person who left.
    We only need to know if "action" means before game starts or before ten minutes.

    I did have a case where someone disconnected at champ select but only abandoned after 5 minutes boot. Didn't count for anyone even though we had won with a man down. Game ID was 6003288.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ValeN View Post
    Also should add that if any player is booted from game, at any time, due to a server reset or any server side issue that caused someone not to be able to reconnect to the game, it won't be counted for any of the players in there.
    Nope, got an abandon during the fix for server instability a few days ago.

    If it's only preventing reconnecting the system still stuffs you with an abandon. Far as I've seen it only disallows games where the match servers went down.

    ----------------

    Anyways, seeing as how pausing pauses the abandon timer I'd like to be given some actual freaking information about WHY they disconnected. If some idiot running a WC3 server can get some basic info about why someone disconnected, I'd at least like a game built with this stuff in mind in the first place to give some basic info on why the guy left so I can judge whether I pause to give him time or not.

    Right now, the system could easily tell people:

    Disconnected.
    Timeout.
    Lost Connection.

    And would be nice if it could tell them:
    Crashed.

    Nobody deserves an abandon if the game crashed and they were 10 seconds late rejoining and I'd be more than happy to pause for extended periods if I knew WHY they left.

    One more thing, the timer keeps counting down while they're reconnecting back into the match. Changing it so the timer stops before they're fully in would be a boon for people sporting older CPUs (judging by the load times I've seen, that's a good 25% of participants).
    Last edited by TVF; 02-24-2012 at 06:06 AM.

  4. #4
    Basic Member ValeN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVF View Post
    Nope, got an abandon during the fix for server instability a few days ago.

    If it's only preventing reconnecting the system still stuffs you with an abandon. Far as I've seen it only disallows games where the match servers went down.

    ----------------
    Connection timeout thingy that a lot of people complain about is not a issue with their server, it is with you making a connection TO them. It's not like the server is preventing you from reconnecting. Well, it is. But not because it wants to.

    In that case you cannot even try to reconnect as there is no game to come back to.

    I have a quote from zoid to back up on this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoid View Post
    If you get this error, this indicates either the server crashed, or itself was disconnected from Steam and the lobby or matchmaking game no longer exists. You will not get an abandon in this case since it was an issue where the server or Steam restart resulted in the disconnect.

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    It wasn't a timeout. The "reconnect" button was literally gone and find match did nothing. Ten minutes after it started it finally allowed reconnects (many people in chat were experiencing the issue too, so it wasn't an isolated issue with the hotfix).

    So either they did something different for that patch or the system isn't working as it should.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowreflex View Post
    Current Abandon Logic

    If you are disconnected for more than 5 minutes cumulative you will get an Abandon. This includes multiple instances, like 3 times for 2 minutes each.
    Is this seriously how it works? This is pants-off retarded.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by slogga View Post
    Is this seriously how it works? This is pants-off retarded.
    Agreed =/

    I mean, I've been lucky. I've played 164 games and have 0 abandons (no crashes or rage QQs), but not everyone has stable computers.

    One of my friends has 22 "abandons" because his Steam crashes due his genuinely low spec'd computer =/ If only there was a way to to exclude Steam crashes (if a genuine error message is detected in some way, then an abandon will not be applied) from the abandon detection. This is quite possibly total bullshit what I'm about to suggest, but if you're in a Dota 2 match and Steam crashes, an error message could be sent to the server to indicate that it may not have been an abandon. To prevent people from simply using the Task Manager to close Steam, have the server send a message to the player after 10min to check if they have reconnected. If they have, then the abandon will stay un-recorded, if they are still not back, it will assume they have abandoned and the abandon will be recorded (because 10 minutes is a long time to restart Steam and re-connect to the game).

    I dunno, that's my idea. I don't know very much of anything about network programming, but that's my idea :P
    Last edited by The][nquisitoR; 05-25-2012 at 07:31 AM.

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    Well I guess I'll kick start the discussion in this thread with a major pet peeve of mine at the moment.

    Currently I feel the community is being far, far too vindictive towards people that disconnect from games.

    This point is purely directed towards people who have connection issues, or hardware problems that cause crashes every now and then, usually long enough to prevent them from reconnecting to games within the five minute window. I feel that the "punishment" towards people that disconnect for more than five minutes, but still manage to return to and finish the game to be excessive. These are not toxic members of the community, these are not people who are deliberately trying to ruin games, these are most likely just genuine players like you or I and I am sick to death of seeing people try to extradite them from the community because they don't have perfect systems.

    As far as I'm concerned if, in the formulae that determines whether or not you've reached the threshold to be placed in the low-priority pool, a regular abandon is worth 10 points of negative karma, a disconnect followed subsequently by a player returning and finishing the game should be worth something along the lines of 2 points of negative karma.

    This is not abusable, since those that want to abandon games due to frustration won't be hanging around the finish the game anyway.

    And to those who suggest that people should just "fix" the problem, as though for some reason the people in this situation don't want to, not everyone has a money tree growing out of their kitchen sink, we're talking about people on student budgets or people who simply have enough financial problems already and don't deserve to have a joy in their life, such as Dota, shit on their face because they can't afford infalliable systems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AceOfJokers View Post
    And to those who suggest that people should just "fix" the problem, as though for some reason the people in this situation don't want to, not everyone has a money tree growing out of their kitchen sink, we're talking about people on student budgets or people who simply have enough financial problems already and don't deserve to have a joy in their life, such as Dota, shit on their face because they can't afford infalliable systems.
    In many cases the "fix" does not cost anything, its just a question on how much time your willing to spend learning enough to actually fix it. When i got my betakey i had an old and trashy computer that kept getting overheated / crashed / was unstable. After realising i had a problem with my current setup, i spent much time on figureing how to solve the issues (in my case this involved changing dota2 to really low quality, reducing cpu clockspeed and forcing gpu to underperform to avoid overheating, additionally i found a fan i could place to blow into computer to keep it at a stable temperature). It did not cost me anything and it fixed the issue.

    Saying that "I SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO PLAY IN HIGH PRIORITY QUEUE ON A COMPUTER THAT DROPS EVERY 2nd GAME, BECAUSE IM NOT LEAVING ON PURPOSE!!!1" ruins the point of having 2 seperate queues as the high priority will be full of leavers too.

  10. #10
    Basic Member ValeN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AceOfJokers View Post
    This is not abusable, since those that want to abandon games due to frustration won't be hanging around the finish the game anyway.
    Yes it is.

    You can disconnect, wait 5 minutes and return. Now you can stay AFK all game because you were already flagged but will receive only 2 points of karma instead of 10.

    Now if you make them be flagged again the people who had legitimate issues and had to drop again will be as punished as the abusers.

    If you had to leave a game, no matter what reason, the other players suffered for it and you should be treated the same regardless. People will try to emulate any method of lessening the punitive measures and in most cases will be succesful.

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