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Thread: Commend/Report/Low Priority/Mute Feedback

  1. #521
    Yea but you shouldn't be losing 50% of the games. That's the pairing fault right there. If someone is a good player, then they should be winning more than 50%. The thing is, when I win a couple of matches, I get paired with really noob players, and the other team is really good, and when I lose a couple of matches, I get paired with really good players and the other team is a complete noob. I play in a party with another friend, and we predict what is going to happen in the next game, meaning if we're gonna have good or bad players or gonna win or lose, and the most annoying thing is, we are right 90% of the time. There really is no real "gaming" or effort or anything like that, its all predefined. That sucks. It would be better to have COMPLETELY random, than have this kind of a lame pairing. I dont know why valve doesnt just pair people up with the number of matches, or number of wins, rather than the ratio.

    FIX MMR POINTS TO BE AWARDED FOR INDIVUDUAL PERFORMANCE RATHER THAN WHOLE TEAM SHARING THE FATE FOR THE FEEDER AND VICE VERSA. SO THAT YOU CAN HAVE +VE MMR POINTS EVEN AFTER A LOSS IF YOU DID REALLY WELL.
    ADD THE SURRENDER BUTTON SO THE CRUSHED TEAM DOES NOT WASTE >10 MINS AFK AT FOUNTAIN
    ADD SIZE CUSTOMIZATION FOR THE HUD.

  2. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destructoboy View Post
    Yea but you shouldn't be losing 50% of the games. That's the pairing fault right there. If someone is a good player, then they should be winning more than 50%. The thing is, when I win a couple of matches, I get paired with really noob players, and the other team is really good, and when I lose a couple of matches, I get paired with really good players and the other team is a complete noob. I play in a party with another friend, and we predict what is going to happen in the next game, meaning if we're gonna have good or bad players or gonna win or lose, and the most annoying thing is, we are right 90% of the time. There really is no real "gaming" or effort or anything like that, its all predefined. That sucks. It would be better to have COMPLETELY random, than have this kind of a lame pairing. I dont know why valve doesnt just pair people up with the number of matches, or number of wins, rather than the ratio.
    Suppose, for simplicity, that there are an infinite number of players, with a wide range of different skill levels.

    If the match making system worked properly, then you and every other player in the match team would be roughly of equal ability, on both teams. In that case, surely the chance of winning would be very close to 50%.

    Of course, in reality, there are not an infinite number of players - but there are a damn lot of them. Unless you're one of the best players in the world I don't think it unreasonable to expect that there will usually be enough players online to put you in an evenly matched game for most (but not all) games. - and so the chance of winning would still be around 50%.

    Unfortunately, the match making system is not perfect, and it will never be perfect. Individual player's skill changes from week-to-week, day-to-day, match-to-match; maybe some players just naturally play well together, while other combinations of players simply fail due to conflicting styles... Maybe you sometimes get randomly put on a team where every player has only trained as a support or something.. and so you don't have much chance. The thing is, these flaws in the match-making are likely to happen both in your favour, and against your favour, with equal probability. So, even with a somewhat flawed and imperfect match making system you should still have roughly 50% chance of winning any individual game.

    With this point of view, about the only time you should expect to have significantly higher than 50% win rate is if you are constantly improving. ie. If every day, you play better than you did in the previous day, then effectively you are always playing better than the match-making system expected you to play - and so you might get better than 50% win rate.

    (If you are one of the very best players in the world, then the game probably won't be able to find team mates and opponents to match your skill level, and so you might then get significantly higher than 50% win rate as well.)

  3. #523
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    Just playing with this guy http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198037468074/

    I preselected axe at the right beginning of the picking phase and alt-tabbed to read emails. when i switched ingame again to play axe woods, this guy had picked pugna and wanted to play him woods (yes i know its viable with smoke and stacking). So we both went woods because i cant lane with mortred.
    he started to capslock-rage at me, like he can't lane on safe-lane with mortred and HAS to jungle with pugna.

    In the end i had farmed more than he managed to and had gotten double kill + first blood with mortred's assistance.
    After that I took his 6x stack, which was very low on life, since he doesnt even know how to clear stacks with pugna and smoke-stacking.

    basically he went into full-retard-mode because of that. he started to feed on purpose, right clicked my hero so he kept following. whenever he had a chance to harm me, he decripified me. And so forth. I disabled the help-option but that doesnt work with his decripify-skill. so i ran into the base because that was the only way how i could get him of my back.

    Match ID is 22337288.

    I obviously reported him. But who knows, if that even works aswell.

    Gl to everyone in this matchmaking system.
    How is that even possible that such a player is still able to play the beta?
    I am 100% certain that he behaves like that almost every game.

  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by karadoc View Post
    Suppose, for simplicity, that there are an infinite number of players, with a wide range of different skill levels.

    If the match making system worked properly, then you and every other player in the match team would be roughly of equal ability, on both teams. In that case, surely the chance of winning would be very close to 50%.

    Of course, in reality, there are not an infinite number of players - but there are a damn lot of them. Unless you're one of the best players in the world I don't think it unreasonable to expect that there will usually be enough players online to put you in an evenly matched game for most (but not all) games. - and so the chance of winning would still be around 50%.

    Unfortunately, the match making system is not perfect, and it will never be perfect. Individual player's skill changes from week-to-week, day-to-day, match-to-match; maybe some players just naturally play well together, while other combinations of players simply fail due to conflicting styles... Maybe you sometimes get randomly put on a team where every player has only trained as a support or something.. and so you don't have much chance. The thing is, these flaws in the match-making are likely to happen both in your favour, and against your favour, with equal probability. So, even with a somewhat flawed and imperfect match making system you should still have roughly 50% chance of winning any individual game.

    With this point of view, about the only time you should expect to have significantly higher than 50% win rate is if you are constantly improving. ie. If every day, you play better than you did in the previous day, then effectively you are always playing better than the match-making system expected you to play - and so you might get better than 50% win rate.

    (If you are one of the very best players in the world, then the game probably won't be able to find team mates and opponents to match your skill level, and so you might then get significantly higher than 50% win rate as well.)
    You seem like a very intelligent, logical, probably science oriented person, however I am guessing you're quite young. What you said definitely holds if this was a mathematical equation. However, this rule does not, firstly, apply to this game. This is not gambling or slots where you would have an equal chance of winning and losing (there is the human factor and mental skill involved). If it was, then firstly there would be absolutely no point in playing AT ALL (just like there is no point to playing slots as the outcome is predetermined whether you are a retard or a genius) and secondly there would be no point of holding tournaments, as all teams would have an equal chance of winning or losing, and Na'Vi are plain simple lucky . Fact is, whoever better than most will win more, whether in completely random selection, or even skilled matchmaking. And please do not say to me that since everyone is getting matched to their own percentile's they still have a 50 50 chance of winning and losing, because again, that is not true, no point of holding tournaments, not point in playing. If I am in the 70th percentile and getting paired up to other 70th percentile people, then the fact is they are nearly as good as me right. When we play sports, we play with people of our own skill level. Yet, you see that some teams win more often than others. NO ONE has 50% wins. That is the law of sports and games. UNLESS the matchmaking is pairing you up with people who are NOT the same skill level, but only the same win/loss ratio as you, which is what it does. Thus if you win a few games, you get paired up with people so bad and the opponents so good, that even if you make Dendi play in your stead, he will be like wth is this game. And when you lose a couple of times, you try playing crystal maiden as carry and I guarantee you will win. THAT is what the flaw with the matchmaking is.

    NOW for arguments sake lets say yea, the chance of winning is 50%, but then her's my question to you, how the hell do two teams of the same skill level, have a team score of 8 to 40? How come when I win a couple of games, two or three people playing in my team do not even know basics about the game (as I have experienced hundreds of times). How come when I lose a couple of games, I am matched with great players, and we crush the other team cuz they picked, PICKED not randomed, 4 carries, or some other idiotic thing(s) that they did.

    Sir the matchmaking first of all SHOULD not leave you to a 50% win to loss. And secondly the matchmaking SHOULD not result in 49 out of 50 games, that have the end result determined within 10 mins of the game. If it was not seriously flawed, then at least 30% of my games would seem fair, or have equally skilled people in both teams.

    FIX MMR POINTS TO BE AWARDED FOR INDIVUDUAL PERFORMANCE RATHER THAN WHOLE TEAM SHARING THE FATE FOR THE FEEDER AND VICE VERSA. SO THAT YOU CAN HAVE +VE MMR POINTS EVEN AFTER A LOSS IF YOU DID REALLY WELL.
    ADD THE SURRENDER BUTTON SO THE CRUSHED TEAM DOES NOT WASTE >10 MINS AFK AT FOUNTAIN
    ADD SIZE CUSTOMIZATION FOR THE HUD.

  5. #525
    Basic Member DarkLite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destructoboy View Post
    NOW for arguments sake lets say yea, the chance of winning is 50%, but then her's my question to you, how the hell do two teams of the same skill level, have a team score of 8 to 40? How come when I win a couple of games, two or three people playing in my team do not even know basics about the game (as I have experienced hundreds of times). How come when I lose a couple of games, I am matched with great players, and we crush the other team cuz they picked, PICKED not randomed, 4 carries, or some other idiotic thing(s) that they did.
    Because the matchmaking is currently terrible. A 50% win/loss through matching you with stronger/weaker opponents (rather than hurrdurring your team) is the ideal matchmaking outcome for pub play.

    No matchmaking system can account for "human factors" and "mental skill", so that can effectively be ignored when matchmaking a player. No matchmaking system can deal with extremely good players (as in, world-class ones), because there's only a limited group of under a thousand people with that skill level. They won't be online all at once, they won't be in the same region, so matchmaking systems break down at this end.

    On a side note: no matchmaking system can aim for anything other than 50% win/loss ratio, because it's not mathematically possible. Someone has to win and lose each game. If you win 80% of games, that means your opponents are losing 80% of games and thus the MM fails on their end, etc. etc. People may get higher/lower win ratios, but if they're not international-level players then that's down to a failure of matchmaking.

    edit: matchmaking is governed by a mathematical equation, so games need to be interpreted in that context.

  6. #526
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLite View Post
    Because the matchmaking is currently terrible. A 50% win/loss through matching you with stronger/weaker opponents (rather than hurrdurring your team) is the ideal matchmaking outcome for pub play.

    No matchmaking system can account for "human factors" and "mental skill", so that can effectively be ignored when matchmaking a player. No matchmaking system can deal with extremely good players (as in, world-class ones), because there's only a limited group of under a thousand people with that skill level. They won't be online all at once, they won't be in the same region, so matchmaking systems break down at this end.

    On a side note: no matchmaking system can aim for anything other than 50% win/loss ratio, because it's not mathematically possible. Someone has to win and lose each game. If you win 80% of games, that means your opponents are losing 80% of games and thus the MM fails on their end, etc. etc. People may get higher/lower win ratios, but if they're not international-level players then that's down to a failure of matchmaking.

    edit: matchmaking is governed by a mathematical equation, so games need to be interpreted in that context.
    You chose to ignore my suggestion so I really dont have anything to say to you, however would like to add that its not 50% btw, its 47.5% EXACTLY. The ratio dota2 matchmaking tries to maintain is 47.5%. I know 90% of the time if I am going to win or lose the next match. I can lose three matches, and then pick CM, make Mask of madness, phaseboots, Sange and Yasha, Manta, and other such items (for fun i just try to make them run as fast as i possibly can), and I will have a great KDA, and win the match. There is no point in current matchmaking. I'll write my suggestion again, match people up with other people who have almost the same number of wins INSTEAD of a win/loss ratio of bloody fixed 47.5% OR EVEN a range in win loss ratio is acceptable, like 30% to 80%, as then, at least if you are good, you will be stuck at winning 80% of the games. Of course this would be a bad experience for starting people, since if they are dota1 veterans, they will be paired up with noobs and have a shitty time, but in the long run they will enjoy the game truly, as they will be matched up with people who have higher wins and are better players.

    FYI, in the past four hours, I won three matches, and in the last game (the fourth one) i got paired with 4 other russians, who kept talking to each other in russian, and sucked badly, kept going in alone and dying... I had great farm, great kda, and just wasnt able to do anything. Now Mr DarkLite, you think that "mathematical equation" is fair? I am no world class player, but its unfair on me too. this matchmaking system is not fair to really good players, THIS MATCHMAKING SYSTEM IS UNFAIR TO EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO IS ON THE MATCHMAKING SYSTEM. Either valve should make it all random, no equation, just purely first come first serve, or pair people up accourding to their total wins ONLY.

    FIX MMR POINTS TO BE AWARDED FOR INDIVUDUAL PERFORMANCE RATHER THAN WHOLE TEAM SHARING THE FATE FOR THE FEEDER AND VICE VERSA. SO THAT YOU CAN HAVE +VE MMR POINTS EVEN AFTER A LOSS IF YOU DID REALLY WELL.
    ADD THE SURRENDER BUTTON SO THE CRUSHED TEAM DOES NOT WASTE >10 MINS AFK AT FOUNTAIN
    ADD SIZE CUSTOMIZATION FOR THE HUD.

  7. #527
    Another thing I would like to add, when we say its 47.5% w/L ratio that the matchmaking tries to maintain... WHY????? why not pair people who win, up with better players than worse players. Let me explain.
    Current:
    If I win a few matches, my w/l ratio goes higher than 47.5%. I get paired up with meganoobs who have w/l ratio lower than 47.5% and opponents are good players with w/l higher than 47.5%. I lose the game and my w/l goes back down to 47.5%.

    Proposed:
    What if, I win a match, my win/loss ratio goes up to 48%, and I get paired with other people who have a w/l of 48%, and my opponents have a w/l of 48% AS WELL. WOW wouldnt that be great. My efforts would actually be counting towards the result of the game! Now some people here will be saying, ooo but what about the people who are losing, to those... people... i say, the people who will be losing, will be getting paired up with other people who are losing! thus there will be some level of balancing as noobs will be paired with noobs and pros with pros.
    but anyway, doesnt matter, its not like valve listens to the community They just make us fight and argue with each other and take our anger and steam out on these forums, and keep doing what they're doing.

    FIX MMR POINTS TO BE AWARDED FOR INDIVUDUAL PERFORMANCE RATHER THAN WHOLE TEAM SHARING THE FATE FOR THE FEEDER AND VICE VERSA. SO THAT YOU CAN HAVE +VE MMR POINTS EVEN AFTER A LOSS IF YOU DID REALLY WELL.
    ADD THE SURRENDER BUTTON SO THE CRUSHED TEAM DOES NOT WASTE >10 MINS AFK AT FOUNTAIN
    ADD SIZE CUSTOMIZATION FOR THE HUD.

  8. #528
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    I was in this match:
    dota2://matchid=22419147&matchtime=694

    Because i went solo mid i was reported. My team mates then proceeded to feed, afk at fountain and spam me cyrillic and CYKA, calling me fucker, etc.

    This is not fair.Please look into this.

  9. #529
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    Reporting

    Hi Guys,

    Apologies if I am repeating some queries that other people have asked about already but after reading through some of this thread and not quite seeing anything resembling some of the thoughts i have i thought i would do a post with my thoughts.

    I have had dota 2 since christmas and played a few games over the 1st month of me having it in which I ended up abandoning 3 or 4 of my 1st few games through frustration at not knowing what the heck i was meant to be doing, which now that ive been playing for a while in hindsight, i should have watched a few games and asked people more about how to play the game as well as checking the forums for hints and tips on what to do. As far as im aware i wasnt reported for these abandonments. I then didnt play for a few months, after which I met a guy through playing another game on steam who also has dota2 which re-ignited my interest in learning how to play properly and so decided to give it another go.

    I have now been playing regularly (250 hours or there abouts in the last 2 months - no im not addicted, honestly ) and have had a few problems where my pc has crashed or steam/dota has been playing up where I have been unable to reconnect quickly enough which then saw my abandoments go up to 8. These happened early in my renewed dota 2 career, (that sounds a bit funny).

    Now in the last 24 hours I have noticed that my abandonments have went up by 2 again, 1 of which definately happened when I played my first game of today at around 10am GMT. During this game I had a team mate moaning about me farming all the creeps, which as i was playing outworld destroyer, is what i needed to do as from what ive learned is that when using carry characters usually you usually need to farm early on for carry heros to be effective later in the game. As I was about to reply to my teammate's moan, I had a game unstable message come up upon which the game froze before my pc restarted itself. Now I have a decent gaming rig so managed to get booted up and back into steam fairly quickly, and steam started updating the client which made me wonder if thats what caused the crash. After steam updated I then went straight into dota again and into the play menu which had the reconnect leave game options with no mention of an abandonment meaning the game was safe to leave, and so thought to myself "good I made it back in time". So i reconnected and one of my teammates immediatly said they didnt think I was coming back to which i apologised for the disconnect and explained what had happened, then finished the game.

    After the game had finished I then had a friend come on who I have been playing regularly with and invited him to join me, and then noticed a msg above the map on matchmaking saying that I was on low priority for being reported due to abandonment, which i assume must mean that 1 or more of the players in that game reported me. This had me absolutely fizzing as, with the exception of my first few attempts at playing where I did disconnect, I never intentionally disconnect unless there is a pc/steam/dota2/internet connection problem. A look at my game history will show that I play fair and dont mind losing games as you cant win them all, and on top of that I have recently added some more players to my friends list who would probably vouch for me being a decent player in terms of etiquette ie not being abusive or delibarately playing bad during games.

    So I now have a few points to make:

    1. Why did I still have an abandonment come up when as far as I am aware I managed to reconnect to the above mentioned game within the allocated time limit?

    2. Would it not be better if reporting players was only allowed after a given amount of time so that the player has time to reconnect without worrying about whether they will be reported? Its not a players fault if his pc/game suddenly crashes and teammates obviously dont know thats what happened and think you have left the game.

    3. Why is it that upon being placed on low priority that when you do play games that anyone playing in a team with a low priority player is also punished by not recieving battle points? This will surely put players off playing the game as they are being punished for no reason whatsoever.

    Thats all I have to say for now any thoughts regarding these issues wouyld be most welcome and I do apologise for the length of this post but wanted to make myself clear with these issues.

    Thanks

    Dystopia

  10. #530
    Basic Member PharCyDeD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dystopia View Post
    .

    So I now have a few points to make:

    1. Why did I still have an abandonment come up when as far as I am aware I managed to reconnect to the above mentioned game within the allocated time limit?

    2. Would it not be better if reporting players was only allowed after a given amount of time so that the player has time to reconnect without worrying about whether they will be reported? Its not a players fault if his pc/game suddenly crashes and teammates obviously dont know thats what happened and think you have left the game.

    3. Why is it that upon being placed on low priority that when you do play games that anyone playing in a team with a low priority player is also punished by not recieving battle points? This will surely put players off playing the game as they are being punished for no reason whatsoever.

    Thats all I have to say for now any thoughts regarding these issues wouyld be most welcome and I do apologise for the length of this post but wanted to make myself clear with these issues.

    Thanks

    Dystopia
    1. That time can pass a lot quicker than you think. You most likely were unable to reconnect in time. A good way to judge this is to go watch your replay of the match. Time it and your answer will most likely reveal itself.

    2. You don't report people for leaving...its not even an option to report. This is done automatically as far as I know which brings me back to the point I made above.

    3. Low priority is punishment for you, but in order to discourage bad behavior more your friends will have to suffer too. Makes you think twice about wanting to land there again does it not?


    I do commend (not literally in the game) you for the good attitude and willingness to push past the harsh learning curve. You have to understand that leavers (intentional or not), trolls, racism, and overall abuse has plagued the dota genre since its creation many many years ago. To be honest, the punishments are not even harsh enough at the moment...especially for a free to pay game. I hope you can work out the PC issues though.

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