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Thread: [Confirmed] VS, DS or Batrider moving heroes into inescapable places

  1. #111
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    Outlander, there is a huge difference in the skills you mention. For the majority of them, the player casting the spell is the same player effected by the movement over generally unpassable terrain. Having the ability to chose to go somewhere where you might get stuck, and getting stuck by someone else (which is extremely exploitable) is completely different and does not add a productive element to this game.

    I've seen games where a hero gets stuck (by DS specifically), 3-4 of them camp, kill the courier, and do not kill the hero. And the hero is basically removed from the game for 2 1/2 minutes. Is this what you want Dota to be?

    Oh sure maybe the team buys another courier, maybe they already have a force staff to help their teammate. Eitherway, it creates really unnecessary situations which are detrimental to the momentum of the game.

  2. #112
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    I can't se how VALVe guys have missed this if this isn't intended. In TI2 where a lot of this type vacuums and nobody said anything. It must be intended.

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by educational View Post
    Outlander, there is a huge difference in the skills you mention. For the majority of them, the player casting the spell is the same player effected by the movement over generally unpassable terrain. Having the ability to chose to go somewhere where you might get stuck, and getting stuck by someone else (which is extremely exploitable) is completely different and does not add a productive element to this game.

    I've seen games where a hero gets stuck (by DS specifically), 3-4 of them camp, kill the courier, and do not kill the hero. And the hero is basically removed from the game for 2 1/2 minutes. Is this what you want Dota to be?

    Oh sure maybe the team buys another courier, maybe they already have a force staff to help their teammate. Eitherway, it creates really unnecessary situations which are detrimental to the momentum of the game.
    This. I played a game where we got baited as soon as the enemy DS hit level 7 and got 3 or 4 (can't remember) of us stuck on the dire-side hill near the top T2 tower just after we TPed to defend it. Now we were all low level, and it's not that hard for them to just camp and stop any courier-delivered TP's or just vacuum to stop us tping if they DO manage to bring us a tp...

    3-4 players down that early in the game for 1 of theirs just camping us with 1 obs ward... Sigh. This is pretty much exactly why it wasn't like this in DotA 1.

  4. #114
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    I like it.

    In Dota 1 you could do it easily with Vengeful Spirit. Ask a team mate to blink up, then ulti him. Then, wait for an enemy and ulti again. Stuck he is.

    Or you could swap with Pudge, then Pudge hooked enemies up the cliff.

  5. #115
    Basic Member ThoAppelsin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcosMcc View Post
    easily
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcosMcc View Post
    Ask a team mate to blink up, then ulti him. Then, wait for an enemy and ulti again. Stuck he is.
    Just lol.

  6. #116
    Basic Member Mr.Evo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sm:)E View Post
    I can't se how VALVe guys have missed this if this isn't intended. In TI2 where a lot of this type vacuums and nobody said anything. It must be intended.
    In todays game between VP and NextKZ the Rubick used Telekinesis multiple times to win the rune fight. He threw the enemy onto the cliffs and stucked them this way.
    Nevertheless the game was even and the stucked heroes did not suffer from their unfortunate situation. Rubicks team as well as the other had better things to do than blaming Rubick or similar things.

    So I have to agree after all that this behaviour isn't gameruining at all.

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Evo View Post
    In todays game between VP and NextKZ the Rubick used Telekinesis multiple times to win the rune fight. He threw the enemy onto the cliffs and stucked them this way.
    Nevertheless the game was even and the stucked heroes did not suffer from their unfortunate situation. Rubicks team as well as the other had better things to do than blaming Rubick or similar things.

    So I have to agree after all that this behaviour isn't gameruining at all.
    This. Everyone constantly argues "Oh well IF made it in DotA 1 that you can't do that so it is obviously a bug that needs to be fixed."

    This beta has been going for over a year now, and since DS release it has worked the way it currently does. I am pretty sure if it was a bug it would have been fixed a long time ago.

    Just like Linkens new interactions with spells such as fissure and impale, mechanics are not the same in the game no more. For all you know IF likes the way vacuum currently works.

    As for all the arguments about Pudge and VS not being able to use Blink Dagger solely because it is to prevent them from getting people stuck, it is more then that. A blink VS would be able to swap initiate with 0 risk, because she would shift queu blink back to her allies resulting in a 4 v 5 situation every fight. And a lvl 6 Pudge that rushes blink would be way too OP and could kill virtually every one in one combo (Blink rot, ult, hook, gg).

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Evo View Post
    In todays game between VP and NextKZ the Rubick used Telekinesis multiple times to win the rune fight. He threw the enemy onto the cliffs and stucked them this way.
    Nevertheless the game was even and the stucked heroes did not suffer from their unfortunate situation. Rubicks team as well as the other had better things to do than blaming Rubick or similar things.

    So I have to agree after all that this behaviour isn't gameruining at all.
    They wouldn't camp because of sportsmanship. Dota is not a game about trapping people in trees/cliffs so it's 5v4. When it happened in TI2, LGD could've easily camped.

    Vacuum is the most problematic because it can suck the whole team. You are pretty much fucked if you rosh without bkb against DS.

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoman View Post
    This. Everyone constantly argues "Oh well IF made it in DotA 1 that you can't do that so it is obviously a bug that needs to be fixed."

    This beta has been going for over a year now, and since DS release it has worked the way it currently does. I am pretty sure if it was a bug it would have been fixed a long time ago.

    As for all the arguments about Pudge and VS not being able to use Blink Dagger solely because it is to prevent them from getting people stuck, it is more then that. A blink VS would be able to swap initiate with 0 risk, because she would shift queu blink back to her allies resulting in a 4 v 5 situation every fight. And a lvl 6 Pudge that rushes blink would be way too OP and could kill virtually every one in one combo (Blink rot, ult, hook, gg).
    Look at the bug list, many bugs are old and haven't been fixed. And no, pudge's blink dagger is disabled because he can get people stuck in trees, not because he's "OP" with it.

    We probably overestimated venge's power with dagger. I don't know exactly how but you don't see andromeda getting picked every game because she can use dagger in HoN.
    Last edited by jackyan22; 09-19-2012 at 03:06 PM.

  9. #119
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    this issue has been around for ages, if it's not fixed it's intended imo. really changes the dynamics of the game and forces out the basics of the game; ALWAYS CARRY A TP.
    the cooldown on vac is 12 seconds. minus the short interval where you are in transition and disabled, you have about 10 seconds to tp the fuck out of there OR send your flying courier to you.
    for all the whiners going on about level 1 darkseers vac-ing people on cliffs in a rune scuffle, YOU ARE MORONS. the aoe on level 1 vac is so negligible that if you got caught in it, you were probably pushing your luck and asking for it.
    in batrider's case, yes, his ulti can turn a fight into a 4v5 immediately, but that's only if your team was too brain dead to bring him down before he got away with your teammate.
    I think it's a wonderful implementation and will be permanent, if you don't like it you can play HoN with their cliffs that you can walk down from.

  10. #120
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    Vacuum(Dark Seer) / Telekenisis(Rubick) stucked people on cliff.

    Summary:

    Dark Seer's Vacuum and Rubick Telekenisis can stucked people to the cliff.

    Repro steps:

    1) Pick DS or Rubick
    2) get Vacuum / Telekenisis
    3) Place enemy near Cliff like here

    4) Use Vacuum on Cliff / Telekenisis


    Result:

    All heroes that are inside the Vacuum area will 'cliff-sliding'.

    Expected result:

    Units can't be stucked into cliff or terrain that can used to stuck enemies and that's applied on Warcraft 3.

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