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Thread: Tiny's Avalance-Toss-Combo deals less damage than in DotA 1

  1. #1
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    Tiny's Avalance-Toss-Combo deals less damage than in DotA 1

    Maybe i am just imagining it, but after seeing it 10 times exactly i am pretty sure;
    DotA 1 Combo:
    Avalanche -> enemy gets 300 damage, Toss, Avalanche -> 300 damage again.
    Dota 2 Combo:
    Avalanche -> enemy gets 300 damage OVER TIME! , Toss (works fine) -> Avalanche 2nd: Problem:
    The first avalanche still ticks ->damage left over is lost, new avalanche triggers -> deals 300 damage

    This is obviously increasing the skill requirement, but also a little nerf in my opionion. I don't even know if you can maximize the damage.

  2. #2
    Volunteer Moderator DLRevan's Avatar
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    The combo does not work like that anymore. Now avalanche is made to damage twice every tick as long as the unit is being tossed (ie, as long as its still in the air) inside avalanche's AOE.

    However, I did find a difference that can explain the combo doing less damage (it does). For one reason or another, in Dota 2 the last tick of damage from avalanche tends to occur after the unit has landed, and hence does normal, not double, damage. If someone can verify this I will put it in the common bugs list.
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    For us whos not great at english, what does most damage, Ava > Toss or Toss > Ava?

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    Basic Member SlyGoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denzar View Post
    For us whos not great at english, what does most damage, Ava > Toss or Toss > Ava?
    I would assume ava -> toss, because avalanche has a minor delay before its damage starts and toss is an instant cast.

  5. #5
    Volunteer Moderator bu3ny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlyGoat View Post
    I would assume ava -> toss, because avalanche has a minor delay before its damage starts and toss is an instant cast.
    The delay is 0.75 seconds.
    Please, just call me buny.

  6. #6
    Basic Member Ainion's Avatar
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    There's been mathcraft and ava > toss does more damage AND gives you a larger window to perform the combo. (not too sure about the last part)

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    Bumping this because of some testing I did in this thread. Here's a combat log from ava+toss:

    Code:
    [12:12.24] Tiny  hits Templar Assassin  with Avalanche for 112 damage (833->721).
    [12:12.24] Templar Assassin receives Avalanche debuff from Tiny.
    [12:12.50] Tiny  hits Templar Assassin  with Avalanche for 112 damage (721->609).
    [12:12.77] Tiny  hits Templar Assassin  with Avalanche for 112 damage (609->497).
    [12:12.87] Tiny  hits Templar Assassin  with Toss for 270 damage (497->227).
    [12:13.00] Tiny  hits Templar Assassin  with Avalanche for 56 damage (226->170).
    As others have confirmed in this thread, you miss out on some avalanche damage on the last tick. Here's one where I did toss then ava:

    Code:
    [12:28.40] Tiny  hits Templar Assassin  with Avalanche for 112 damage (834->722).
    [12:28.40] Templar Assassin receives Avalanche debuff from Tiny.
    [12:28.67] Tiny  hits Templar Assassin  with Avalanche for 112 damage (721->609).
    [12:28.73] Tiny  hits Templar Assassin  with Toss for 270 damage (609->339).
    [12:28.93] Tiny  hits Templar Assassin  with Avalanche for 56 damage (339->283).
    [12:29.17] Tiny  hits Templar Assassin  with Avalanche for 56 damage (283->227).
    It basically missed two ticks of avalanche damage. However, I then intentionally delayed my toss:

    Code:
    [18:42.24] Tiny  hits Templar Assassin  with Avalanche for 112 damage (833->721).
    [18:42.24] Templar Assassin receives Avalanche debuff from Tiny.
    [18:42.51] Tiny  hits Templar Assassin  with Avalanche for 112 damage (721->609).
    [18:42.78] Tiny  hits Templar Assassin  with Avalanche for 112 damage (609->497).
    [18:43.01] Tiny  hits Templar Assassin  with Avalanche for 112 damage (497->385).
    [18:43.08] Tiny  hits Templar Assassin  with Toss for 270 damage (385->115).
    So basically the only way to get the full combo damage is to ava, wait a fraction of a second, then toss.

    This is completely bugged since either way should give double avalanche damage. With toss+ava, you should even be able to get one more damage instance off from avalanche (in other words, you get 2.25x damage) if you time it perfectly. However, currently the only way to actually get full damage is a poorly-timed ava+toss.

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    Might be the autoqueuing "bug", if it doesn't do it when you wait a bit. If you order a cast while still casting another spell(so before it fires), it will queue the 2nd spell, however the queue won't skip the animation of the first spell and as such will be delayed. If you cast the 2nd spell right after the first one fires however, you cancel the first and cast the 2nd faster because it's not queued. I don't know if it's a bug or a feature of the new engine, but it does that with any 2 spells combo pretty much, casting them as fast as possible will be slower than casting the 2nd one with the right timing(after first one fires).

  9. #9
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    But tiny's cast animation is .001/0 so there shouldn't be any delay after casting. Besides, in my tests I found that delaying it intentionally makes it do more damage.

  10. #10
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    i'll add it to the sticky.
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