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Thread: MMR System is Broken

  1. #1
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    MMR System is Broken

    Some people say that it's perfect some say that it's broken. I'm in the latter camp. I will give you some examples with some calculations to prove my point.

    Everybody knows that in Dota 2 you can't win all games even you are the best player on both teams. Some games are 100% loss even when you play your absolute best. Some games are 100% win even when you AFK. This kind of games happen rather often. The third category of games are those which are relatively close and balanced. Around 1/3 games are 100% loss. Around 1/3 games are 100% win. ONLY around 1/3 of your all games actually influence your MMR. That's because the other two categories cancel each other out. Realistically your can win around 2/3 of all those close games. For hundred games that's around 2/3*33=22 games won and 11 lost. Your MMR gain is then 11*25=275. That means that when you calibrate around 1k it will require playing around 400 games to get to 2k! FOUR HUNDRED games to gain 1k MMR!

    Some people say: "just play high impact mid and snowball". This advice is often given by people who play on 5k+ an boost 2k accounts. When you have 3k MMR advantage then you can snowball very often but most people are 2k for a reason. They CAN'T dominate games because they don't have the skills.

    Let's examine a typical situation where it all brakes down. You start a game and everybody except you picks a carry. They pick carry since they think that they are SOOO much better than everybody else and they will snowball. XD You pick support because you have to. The other team is balanced. All lanes are lost quickly and everybody starts to troll and flame. What can you do? NOTHING! On low MMR this happens very often.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToshoDaimos View Post
    Let's examine a typical situation where it all brakes down. You start a game and everybody except you picks a carry. They pick carry since they think that they are SOOO much better than everybody else and they will snowball. XD You pick support because you have to. The other team is balanced. All lanes are lost quickly and everybody starts to troll and flame. What can you do? NOTHING! On low MMR this happens very often.
    You can also have impact as a support. Especially early game. Enemy safe lane tower dives like retards? Tp in, disable 1, get a kill, get gold gain an advantage. Repeat. Gank mid as support. Outzone the enemy offlane. Deny the XP of the enemy. There are a lot of possiblities to fuck with your opponents as support.

    Sure, you won't win late game. But if you make your carries game easier, they automatically play like 500 MMR higher. Because they have the resources they never get in a normal pub game (if you are really out of your tier). And eventually you will rise in MMR.

    The only flaw of the system: if you perform super well every game, win every game (like high MMR smurfs do), the system won't recognize that. It could, for example, increase the MMR gain per match, so the player gets to his actual skill level way faster.

  3. #3
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    yes its broken.
    very simplistic and unfair.

    the most important thing is to have a system that finds abusers (throwers, the ones giving up or intentionally losing the game) and making them bear the responsibility of point loss.
    then other code to acknowledge skill and diferentiate between players. you can keep that scoring private, so people dont know how its done, and you can change the equation once it happens.
    there is no perfection. thats the bottom line.
    and the faster we start to tweak the system, the faster we are gonna get to a decent form.
    currently its a neanderthal version

  4. #4
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    The main problem is that MMR measures your "likelihood of winning" instead of your skill. In VERY many games your chance of winning is not in your hands since it's not a solo game.

  5. #5
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    problem with the current MMR system is it is TOO EASY for new players or smurf to access the game. Probably valve should put like finish all hero challenge plus the required amount of game before letting them into the rank system? Just my 2cents

  6. #6
    Yes, the MMR system is very simplistic and bad so either accept it or stop playing Dota, that's about the only advice I can give you.
    And I will soon take my own advice, after the Major to be exact. Honestly can't be bothered anymore, wasting time with no results.
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    I quit dota after patch 7.00 . I am not stating 7.00 is bad (yes, I personally hate it) but instead of fixing important shit like this . valve and icefrog and doing jack shit to milk more money by adding shitty features and borrowing concepts from other games (which in the first place what distinguished dota from other MOBAS).

    It is extremely sad but I am one of those frustrated people who used to love dota but due to this broken matchmaking where its so hard to actually find people to work with.

    Instead of making changes to encourage teammates to communicate , they want to add bullcrap features like talent tree , shrines and bounty runes for everyone. Take all the effort to balance the game till 6.88 and taking a atomic dump on it. yes lets add all the jack shit to the game (Look at the rosh pit, its in fucking no where and the lava is flowing into the pit out of what? thin f'ing air?) . Alright fellas, lets copy the fucking map,UI from LOL and hey take that shrines & talents from HOTS.

    What exactly was wrong with 6.88? I know I am way off topic but yes FUCK DOTA , TY VALVE and u fucking frog

  8. #8
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    i think you need to realise that most 5-9k players have more than 5k matches and also previous experience with other mobas such as dota 1 and hon previously. Im 4.1k and most players have around 4k matches. I is possible to gain mmr in quick bursts but to maintain it requires an adequate amount of skill. My best mmr gains was with a win/loss of 49-11 which is 950mmr. Don't be too upset if you have 2000 hrs and haven't hit 3k. I have seen people with 8k matches played and still at 3k mmr. If there is someone who is better than you at dota there will always be people who are worse than you

  9. #9
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    Don't worry mate. When you saw a player played 8k matches and still at 3k MMR, 99% that is a fvcking account buyer~ He simply thought that he's 7k MMR, decide to buy an account and now he realized how bad he is!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToshoDaimos View Post
    Some people say that it's perfect some say that it's broken. I'm in the latter camp. I will give you some examples with some calculations to prove my point.

    Everybody knows that in Dota 2 you can't win all games even you are the best player on both teams. Some games are 100% loss even when you play your absolute best. Some games are 100% win even when you AFK. This kind of games happen rather often. The third category of games are those which are relatively close and balanced. Around 1/3 games are 100% loss. Around 1/3 games are 100% win. ONLY around 1/3 of your all games actually influence your MMR. That's because the other two categories cancel each other out. Realistically your can win around 2/3 of all those close games. For hundred games that's around 2/3*33=22 games won and 11 lost. Your MMR gain is then 11*25=275. That means that when you calibrate around 1k it will require playing around 400 games to get to 2k! FOUR HUNDRED games to gain 1k MMR!

    Some people say: "just play high impact mid and snowball". This advice is often given by people who play on 5k+ an boost 2k accounts. When you have 3k MMR advantage then you can snowball very often but most people are 2k for a reason. They CAN'T dominate games because they don't have the skills.

    Let's examine a typical situation where it all brakes down. You start a game and everybody except you picks a carry. They pick carry since they think that they are SOOO much better than everybody else and they will snowball. XD You pick support because you have to. The other team is balanced. All lanes are lost quickly and everybody starts to troll and flame. What can you do? NOTHING! On low MMR this happens very often.
    You remind me of a friend who wants to get into 4k MMR, but just can't do it, so he created another account hoping that the calibration will get him up to 4k MMR. But after that, his MMR still calibrated to 3k on his new account. So LOLS.

    Stop blaming your teammates because you are on the same tier as them. You are just as lousy as your team. I'm sorry if you can't see it yourself.

    I'm sure Pro players like Miracle blames his team mates every time he loses, he rages and you know just expects his allies in future matches to help him win.... Start with yourself, you will never improve if you continue blaming your team.

    FYI SOLO MATCH MAKING = your ability to win matches given 4 random teammates vs 5 random enemies.

    Leavers, Abandon, Throwers, Dumb Teammates will balance out the wins and loses as you play more matches, and eventually over time if you are a better player, you will have more wins over loses. All other Dota 2 players are bound to encounter these teammates every now and then, but those who can turn the defeat into a victory are the players who know what they are doing and know what they need to do.

    Be it playing a role that they don't like, or forcibly picking heroes that benefit the team/counter opponents picks. Have you done that? Yes? Every match? Just to increase your chances of winning.

    Don't just blame the MMR system dude, if you do that might as well say that all other game that use similar system to calibrate skill rating is pointless, every other game uses similar concepts to measure a player's skill level/ranking with others E.G. League of Legends, Heroes of Newerth, Starcraft. Just because you can't gain MMR then you blame the system, albeit there are flaws to the system yes, but given time, your true MMR will show.

    Flawed..... everyone, every system, every idea is flawed in one way or another, you want to devise another match making system where you think its going to be perfect/flawless. That's wishful thinking...
    Last edited by enques; 01-04-2017 at 03:10 AM.

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