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Thread: matchmaking issues

  1. #21
    Basic Member Luffydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricTams View Post
    Actually I believe that Tyrano and Haiko are pros - anyone know if they are playing on an official team?

    Just curious - was there a party on your side?
    I don't think so, Tyrano has only 7 wins and Haiko spend half the game saying we suck. I don't believe pros become so proud of themselves by beating up feeders

    Also I don't think there was a party on our side since Sven went top with morph instead of going with the guy above him (mirana) or the guy below him (pudge)

    and I think you missed
    Also a question, how many brackets are in the high skill matches? Because I can queue at the same time as friends that are good players... but they get matched against famous players and get lots of viewers, but I get stuck and get bad players when I queue at the same time. And when I check all my games are high skill.
    Last edited by Luffydude; 03-20-2012 at 12:26 PM.

    Simple and obvious things that should get fixed/added asap: SCOREBOARD, Ingame friend list, Different Ping for Roshan, Add Notes to Players, Accept Button while tabbed

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luffydude View Post
    Also a question, how many brackets are in the high skill matches? Because I can queue at the same time as friends that are good players... but they get matched against famous players and get lots of viewers, but I get stuck and get bad players when I queue at the same time. And when I check all my games are high skill.
    Some of the pros play anonymously otherwise I bet you would recognize more names.

  3. #23
    Basic Member Takomancer's Avatar
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    I just wanted to add that I selected myself as a beginner when I first launched dota 2 because I came from a LoL scene and was completely new to dota scene, so I was able to learn basic mechanics of dota fairly quickly. My question is: how difficult is it to get out of the beginners bracket to the next bracket?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takomancer View Post
    I just wanted to add that I selected myself as a beginner when I first launched dota 2 because I came from a LoL scene and was completely new to dota scene, so I was able to learn basic mechanics of dota fairly quickly. My question is: how difficult is it to get out of the beginners bracket to the next bracket?
    as far as i know.. the 3 options when you first start will place you in low - mid - or high. im guessing this since i picked the middle one and was placed in mid.

    I played 3 games in mid and then i got into high. so i it shouldnt take too long time to get out of a tier you shouldnt be in.

    But the question remains, is there hidden brackets within each tier?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricTams View Post
    Was the player with 300 wins partied with the two new players? A lot of the weirdness happens because people make crazy parties - a very common instance being an experienced player teaching his friends how to play.

    Typically the trade off in matchmaking is wait time versus match quality. We could always try and slow down the match time in an attempt to provide higher accuracy matches but this will get better naturally as we add more players so I'd rather keep match times snappy.
    I'm one of the people who queues with friends of different skill levels, sometimes playing solo and other times(most of the time,lately) playing in parties of any number up to 5. For the sake of leaving my personal emotions out of this post I will speak only with the facts I have about problems I think this creates.This is from experience of about 1000 total games in the beta. Sorry for the wall of text.

    I queue with a friend of mine(If you'd like to check further, I can pm you names) who's a total beginner in dota, but not to video games, and selected the easiest level when he started. I'm playing on high bracket, and most of the time we're put in medium level games (works as it should). My friend doesn't know what all heros spells do so if he solos a lane he's going to get creamed and possibly cause a landslide in our disadvantage. Luckily this has never happened because this particular friend is very smart and doesn't try to swim in waters too deep, but I can't say most people are like that.

    Another problem that can occur when I queue with that friend is that I don't know what background our other team mates are coming from (which is a problem extended to global when the search range grows a bit too large). We're probably on skill level medium, but are our other team mates low-low-high skilled? If there's more newbies like my friend, I should instruct them on buying regen so they can stay on their lane and level up--but I can't do that. Occasionally, I'm bound to solo mid against a low skilled person. I'm not the kind of guy who will not kill enemies- I only give advice to them after I've already had my way (I'm taking the liberty to assume it's almost everyone who would do it- I know this sucks and I don't do it on a LAN at the net cafe, but in a random game in the internet I'll crush everyone I can, because others do the same to my team if they get the opportunity).

    It's fun going 25( or more)/1 but just happens too often when the skill/rating disparities between team members is too high and it's not good (you realise that mostly when you're on the receiving end). I am estimating about 1 out of 3 games I've played with huskar(and some other ganking heroes like Pudge/Bs) have ended with me storming the enemy base at minute 20 with 15k gold worth of farm and aegis. Of course this sometimes happens against me as well. Eventually that's something that will happen (when you have a great game you might end up steamrolling the enemy , ok) but feasting on the newbie is too common.

    Onward to another scenario, where I'm queueing with a large stack of friends, which are medium to high, medium and medium to low/low leveled. We're queueing as 4 (on the high bracket most of the time) and we get that one guy. He goes mid, gets destroyed and gives up about 10 mins into the game at which point it's impossible for us to win. Then some games later, we queue again as 4 and the 5th guy which we don't know goes mid again with night stalker, destroys their solo and chain kills every enemy in the map to a disgusting point. I know our team is made of people of different skill levels but how are we supposed to lane to get a fair game? The 5th person could be lower than our lowest player or higher than our highest.

    I bet the majority of people in low bracket don't enjoy getting chain killed by someone who's just way better in a lane. Even though I'm a very experienced player I've felt that myself. A long time ago I middled some sven (as pudge) who was just really really good and he first blooded me, took all the runes and killed everyone in the map. My team was flaming me, and while there's no excuse for that I'd very much appreciate if I could know he was however much higher rated than me and let someone else equally high rated face him. On the other hand, I'd very much appreciate it if this didn't happen with a lowbie from my team soloing against a pro from the enemy, or the reverse.

    Newbie against pro in solo lanes has to stop. Give us an indication of people's matchmaking rating at start of the game so we can organize better. This worked well in warcraft 3 random team ladder games, which were very similar to dota like games(Had to work as a team, soloing didn't get you anywhere). They had levels that indicated player skill levels there, and everyone could see everyone's level at the loading screen, so if there was a level 30 guy he could help the level 8 ones etc.


    Another different problem that applies only when you queue as a stack is the way the system handles it. I don't mind the matchmaking being a bit more loose in order to get shorter queues (I hate waiting in the queue) but here's a problem I encounter the last days, when I've played an awful lot of games as a 5 stack: Sometimes we'll get matched against 3+2 players and we'll destroy them only because they didn't organise themselves well/had fights whereas we as a 5 stack, even if not an actual team and having varied skill levels, can organize our laning way better than them.

    It'd be great if there was some indication players queued together, so it's obvious from the beginning that they might want to lane together etc.

    Lastly, sometimes we'll just face randoms or a stack of 2+ 3 randoms as a 5 stack. I can't know if this is a fact because people they could just be lying because they lost when I ask them, but if it's possible to match 5 stacks against complete randoms I'd just take the longer queue- I don't enjoy this and it's not fair.

    Actually my opinion is that the indication of people queueing together should be obvious to the enemy as well, so at least they know what they have to deal with (in the unfortunate occasion we get matched against randoms/ lower stacks)

  6. #26
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    I often had to sit through 15-30 minute queues in HoN because I was in the top 5% of the MMR. While this might sound bad, it was actually much better than the system currently in place in Dota 2. Games ended up being a lot more balanced and you didn't get that one sided stomp that seems so common in this. I don't know what other people's experience with the matches in Dota 2 are, but I can safely say that the amount of games that were lopsided for one team, whether it be mine or the opponent's, far outweighs the amount of balanced games that had no clear winner in the early stages. Perhaps there needs to be a choice when queueing on if you want even games or faster queue, giving people the option to do either.

    I should also remind people that games can last well into the 60 minute range so 15 minutes isn't an outrageous wait to ensure a quality game. Quality over quantity is a good motto, even for playing competitive video games!
    Last edited by SouP; 03-20-2012 at 04:30 PM.

  7. #27
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    I'd hate to wait into 15-30 min queues in any case

  8. #28
    Basic Member BenSkysong's Avatar
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    I share the same frustrating issue in Matchmaking last night.
    I think I'm in the lower tier high skilled bracket, because I've never seen people in Luffydude's bracket.
    Why I said lower-mid tier high skilled bracket is because my stack have been matched with competitive players before.
    Those players are MYM Singapore players, and also my win ratio is just 55.89% not as high as Luffydude.
    I assume those highest level pro players are those always featured in Live Match.
    Therefore, I believe there's a few sub-brackets in the High Skilled bracket.

    So my situation is as below.
    Opponents were familiar names and my stack consists of me and 3 other friends.
    Then this sniper came along with only 2 wins. Which means this is his 3rd game.

    Not only he didn't listen to our strategy, he completely did not talk or communicate with us.
    He went to our Radiant bot lane to Auto attack which costs our primary carry Clinkz to lose farm.
    Me and Clinkz player always lane together and we do really good. First blood is always ours.

    This Sniper player ruins bot lane then tp-ed to top lane to died like np np.
    Match ID: 8117015.

    Me and my 3 other friends wins are as follows: 198+108+329+188+2 (the Sniper).
    Enemies: 44+71+110+74+66

    Eventhough Sniper initially had 100% win rate because both of his only two games he was in the winning team.
    I don't think Matchmaking should group us up together due to win rate.
    As he might still be a new player to Dota 2.

  9. #29
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    I'd be interested to know how much of a difference the 3 options make when you first start the game, if I choose the lowest bracket and completely stomp how long does the system take to work out a more accurate skill level.

  10. #30
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    Tyrano is a high MMR HoN player.

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