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Thread: A very serious and unique thread regarding nearly every problem in Dota 2 and beyond

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    A very serious and unique thread regarding nearly every problem in Dota 2 and beyond

    Sorry if I repeat myself or if my ideas seem scattered, I have a lot on my mind right now.

    Look guys, im just gonna jump right into it. Please read everything when you have the time even though it may be a lot to take in. We all know the low prio system is an issue, we all know that valve is going to do nothing about it. However, one thing I have not noticed anyone say or even suggest is to not even have a report system at all. Now before you all jump straight to the reply button to flame me, let me explain a few things first...

    First off, when we think about not having any report system whatsoever, what is the number one issue? We feel we get paired with piece of crap players, and if there were no reports then theoretically it would just get worse, right? Well, there are 2 points to make in this regard. Number 1 is that if this games ranked system did not force 50% win rates, people who are toxic would eventually LOSE all of their mmr. How is this not true? It's something we've seen before and is not even that uncommon. If someone is CONSTANTLY offensive regarding ability abuse and feeding (comm abuse is not a justifiable reason as to why a game was lost or won, or even for low prio), would they not eventually lose tons of games? Well, with the current ranked system, no they would not and we see that proven, because it almost doesn't even matter matter how many times you throw games, you maintain a 50% win rate anyway. There are tons of acc buyers who are 2-3k and buy 4k+ accs for like 50$ (insanely cheap cuz of calibration and the saturated market), and they never lose mmr because of this. The other factor is how good players would respectively not even have this problem. I can guarantee with utter certainty that 90% of toxic players would not even get upset if they never had to deal with low prio. Most people care more about being in low than what their mmr is(I personally care lots about mmr), this is pretty basic and obvious common sense which is also backed by observational data within the community. Most people would be way less upset and toxic if there was 0 reports whatsoever and a fair ranked system based on realistic stats. Furthermore, if behavior score was effective, you would continually go up, even if you were only good enough to maintain a 51% win rate. (isn't this why every other moba has ladder resets?) Even calibration is a broken system. Spam Slark/Invoker midas rush in 2k average unranked games 100 times and get 4-4.4k calibration every time? What a joke.

    Anyway, the 2nd point in this regard, that is highly worth considering is how deeply the report system actually invokes PURE HATRED. I can't stress this enough or use proper words to describe it, other than EVIL. I know that many people are not religious, but how is it anything but that? Since when did losing your ranks no longer become a suitable "punishment" for being a bad/toxic or even inconsistent player? Has everyone forgotten this concept? Think about the Starcraft/Starcraft 2 days, think about Warcraft 3, all the old mobas, think about literally anything else and youll see that this is apparent. Consider that you literally have the option to mute people, and now consider that 99% of low prio punishments and reports in general are based on communication abuse, or simply a means of taking out frustration on others when you lose(reporting techies pickers, junglers, etc). Internet censorship is more real than ever before in 2017 and we are all to blame. You can't even have a real conversation in Twitch chat anymore without getting permanently banned by some cuckolded moderator drunk on artificial, delusional concepts of power. Yes we choose to play Dota but for fans and people who truly love the game and in their hearts really want to keep playing, and who stick with this game despite the vast popularity of its counter-part, League of Legends, this is a stripping of human rights. You guys have to realize that speech and communication is literally the basis which sustains reality for all humans on this planet. Without it things would be far different in this world. It obviously makes no sense that this is happening, and I feel its only the beginning if it doesn't come into check soon.

    Think about the fact that you can still get q'd with 2 player parties in solo in the year 2017. I get a mid and support partied, and the mid goes 1-10 and the support goes 3-16. Either that or they pick tiny qop and blink onto a ledge and toss us all up there before the buzzer even starts. Then what about mmr boosting and acc buyers? What about the fact that we have no ladder resets in 2017. Inflation? Hello? Look back at International Seasonal MMR, idk if anyone else paid attention (unlikely) but the majority of the leaderboard were not only just barely pushing 6k AT MAX after months gone by, but more than half of the players were boosters. They used the additional (largely unused) matchmaking pool, along with region and language settings to boost. It was beyond obvious and valve did nothing and has done nothing in similar cases since the beginning. Which brings me to another point which is that people are now even abusing the new geographical system that came out a few months ago. I play against 5 chinese with 1 chinese on my team on US East, he picks mid and pretends to play for a while but forcefully loses the game, baits people into feeding by diving towers, etc. Has happened multiple times. Most people being abused by this literally aren't even aware lol, because they make it seem like the guy boosting is just a trash player.

    Anyway back to previous points made in the previous paragraph, I would love for someone to explain why there is no ladder resets. If someone can give me a straight, genuine, and valid answer I would be overjoyed because Ive asked hundreds of people and so far no one has been able to say anything. Why are people who calibrated at 5.5-6k back in 2012 allowed to still be 6k(probably 7k now due to inflation) regardless of how long its been since they played, how much they've progressed with the general communities (or brackets) skill level, or whether they're even any good at the game? Furthermore I can assure you that 2-3k player who buys a 4k account will not actually go below 50% win rate, especially if they pick support and aren't very toxic. A 4k who buys a 5-6k account will have the same results. This is all due to the imposed "50%" win rate system. There is no fair ground, especially for people trying to climb out of 3-4k bracket literally 4-5 years after calibration was introduced to Dota 2.

    This game generates hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars every month, increasing exponentionally every year as they find more clever ways to get people to buy cosmetics (i.e. battle passes, etc), and they can't find a reasonable solution to this, especially when their competitors (Riot), or even games made by the same dev's (CS:GO), and pretty much every MOBA from dota 1 to HoN in history has had better and more realistic system implemented for over a decade now. Whether its Prime matchmaking (cell phone authentication), tribunal, overwatch, ladders, or anything else. Do you guys really think this is unintentional? Is Dota 2 just some special snowflake that is way more perfect than the others? Obviously this isn't the case. Im not claiming to understand why they do this, but ultimately these things stem from corruption in some form or another, and the power of the almighty dollar. This is pretty obvious. Whether its systematic abuse within a video game, or the systematic abuse of the institutional systems (education, prison), its broken and twisted beyond belief and not enough people care. On a side note, think about how 95% of high school graduates(nearly everyone in society) and even how many college/uni students don't know the first thing about relativity theory or quantum physics when these life-changing concepts were introduced in 1905, over 100 years ago. Obviously something is wrong here, they are trying to condition people and keep them ignorant. Understanding relativistic principles of the universe should be taught in high school, how can anyone argue this? Im sure you've all heard the name Albert Einstein 999 times but are you even aware of what he's famous for? There's no coincidences in this systematic disillusion. Were all cattle.

    Anyway back to Dota, 7750 active users on this forum, 10-13mill unique players every month. Not only are less than 1% of Dota 2 players even aware of this forum, but 90% of the current community, if not more, couldn't even post here if they wanted to because you need to have had a beta account back before this game was even remotely popular. Beyond that, valve obviously doesn't reply to anybody. Once again, you guys really think that any of this is unintentional or just based on the fact that they haven't gotten around to it, or even just that they don't care? They obviously care about something, but what that is exactly im unsure. Maybe its money, but they are willingly letting their game go down the drain (Dota 2 has already long passed its peak), so what could that mean? Maybe its like Coke and Pepsi, and they are in cahoots with Riot? We have no way to tell but these are the things I believe that people really need to start considering. Stop bickering about your ideas for "better" report systems, and realize that we don't need one because we are all human beings with an emotional capacity, with an option to mute people that we don't wanna listen to. We just need to abolish this 50% win rate concept and introduce ladder resets so that actual feeders will actually lose mmr and there will be no more reason to purchase accounts.

    My behavior score is 2.9k, and ive been around 4k mmr for 4 years now after playing close to 3000 games. Im very toxic admittedly, but it's because of my hatred for all the horrible things going on in this world and playing this game is just a constant reminder, that all over the place there's massive amounts of human suffering, perpetuated by our own ignorance, and shortcomings. Meanwhile we abide in systems (very few people do not report others) which literally just hurt ourselves, and ultimately the people we care about (our own community.) By reporting others you support the system which means you should not disagree with the fact that you get low prio, otherwise you're a hypocrite. This is basic common sense rhetoric. Many of you may not realize it, but Valve probably wants us to hate. I don't know why, but it's apparent when you piece these things together. It seems we are all just masochistic dogs who wag our tails every time our master (Valve) throws us a treat (+25), which gets stripped away just as fast as it was acquired, and yet we don't even care. I guess were more like pigeons. I think most people at pretty much every mmr can attest that winning/losing games primarily based on your skill or how well you play is very uncommon (especially when you consider drafts, feeders, buyers, random emotional influxes from teammates, the simple fact you're playing with 9 other people in a very punishing video game, the fact that you inevitably have better stats in a victorious match, and many other variables.) It really just doesn't seem to matter what you do. Obviously if you're Arteezy or something you will probably be able to carry but for a 4k trying to get 5k its not even close to fair.

    Ive been a professional/competitive WoW player/raider for 6 years now playing at a top 10 US level. I have not only generated revenue, but I communicate/cooperate with some of the top players in the world (in 20-30 player raid environments not to mention) and I can say without a doubt that someone in my position who has invested countless hours into professional gaming, who is intuitively capable of playing video games at a very high level, and who has respectively played nearly 10,000 hours of Dota 2, should not be stuck at 4k mmr, playing low prio every 6 ranked games, feeling like I can't even say a word to my teammates, and feeling like im literally trapped in hell and that Valve is Satan himself. Ive spent the last 6 years communicating professionally at a top level and Im supposed to just dumb myself down every time I play Dota 2? For what reason? The only reason I still play this game is because I am a passionate gamer and I acknowledge Dota 2 as the most punishing/difficult game on the competitive market. Honestly Ive never seen a company show so little empathy and concern whatsoever for their player base, especially considering how much money they are making. These things just don't add up folks.

    The final element I want people to consider is the pro scene. Aside from money, which is a huge factor for almost everybody, do you really think anything else gets any better? Do you really think your wins/losses become less random when you reach higher mmr? It actually becomes irrefutably more difficult to make an independent impact when playing at higher levels. The more often one team gets an advantage in a 6k+ game the less likely they are to let go of it or miss opportunities like Roshan. And lets be real, its not like there is actually that many things you can even do in a solo q ranked game when you are 0-10 in 15 minutes, you got out drafted, your abilities do nothing and you have 0 items, and someone is probably raging. How is there even any skill involved in that really? Its super silly to suggest that mmr is anything but a watered-down, potentially never-ending grind based on countless random elements in which we eventually convince ourselves are purely static elements because we have no understanding of any relativistic concepts of reality whatsoever and can only perceive the world through an extremely limited and narrow peripheral based purely on newtonian physics.

    Now going back to the actual pro scene, the guys who make the big bucks. Lets do a little analysis here.. lets look at ti2-3 and compare it to t5 onward. Lets analyze the sense of community, purely passion-driven commitment, and lets look at how teams have gone about their success. First we can acknowledge that some players have regrouped with their old comrades over time, and that it's not unreasonable for people to want to break apart or pursue different avenues after a long time of playing together, but look at the old Alliance, Na'Vi, IG, LGD, and every other team that were together for years. Now every 4 months every single teams roster changes drastically, all cuz they wanna win more. Tons of childish crap like Arteezy leaving/joining EG/Secret an excessive number of times. You think anyone who's got the opportunity to make thousands of dollars playing Dota within their reach maintains the principal notion of prioritizing passion, enjoyment, etc over the money? Look at PPD for example or any of the other players who quit immediately after making big sums of cash. You really think that most of these players enjoy playing this game all day playing dreadful solo Q to practice and having to maintain decent mmr's just to look good in front of others when it has little substance to begin with? You really think these guys enjoy travelling all the time playing with jetlag at 5 in the morning just to wake up later and have all your stuff stolen by management because they just go into your rooms and do whatever they want? You really think people enjoy going through all this stress? Sure the money may make it worth it, but it is NOT fun. For anybody. The pro's are just as guilty as valve because they perpetuate this illusion that professional Dota is something that's enjoyable or is worth striving for or making sacrifices for, when it's really not. They also don't speak up for the rest of the community in any way whatsoever. They give absolutely nothing back. You think any of these guys care about anything about anything besides Dota 2 and/or money/pleasure? Most are nothing but puppets, and if you have any sense of reason whatsosever, you should be capable of realizing this.

    Im not here to suggest any real solution. I personally believe that no report system whatsoever would be the best thing for this game and removing this forced 50% win rate barrier would obviously make it fair for the overperforming yet slightly toxic players, who are usually only toxic anyway because they are at least somewhat aware of the abuse thats occurring. Its unlikely things will ever change though. I have very little hope. I just want these things off my chest. All im saying here is that there is much more to this than meets the eye and people really need to wake up if we ever want anything in this world to change whatsoever, because even though ignorance may be bliss, you're inevitably contributing to infinite poverty and self-perpuated never-ending suffering and anguish just by not thinking about these things, or being able to think about them. It's very critical that we wake up ASAP.
    Last edited by Kotr; 02-25-2017 at 05:20 PM.

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    Infowars.com

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    Can you sum it up in 2 rows ?

    Otherwise i won't read it .

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    I personally believe that no report system whatsoever would be the best thing for this game and removing this forced 50% win rate barrier would obviously make it fair for the overperforming yet slightly toxic players
    Dis 1 single sentence summarizes the whole essay. His point is remove the whole punishment system and reports in-game. Other stuff said r unnecessary coz it's a rant supporting dis.

    Well I don't agree with it but alright, dat's his opinion. I think I'd already done my fair share of arguing/trolling/flaming wuteva u call it against dis kind of opinions on here.

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    I support removing report system .

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    Basic Member Kotr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jace View Post
    Dis 1 single sentence summarizes the whole essay. His point is remove the whole punishment system and reports in-game. Other stuff said r unnecessary coz it's a rant supporting dis.

    Well I don't agree with it but alright, dat's his opinion. I think I'd already done my fair share of arguing/trolling/flaming wuteva u call it against dis kind of opinions on here.
    Actually no, that sentence summarizes the first 2 paragraphs. The rest of what I said is independent of my suggestion regarding the report system. Im trying to get people to look at the source for why these problems exist in the first place on multiple scales, so that maybe one day people will be less inert and actually capable of influencing the environment around them instead of just simply being a bi-product of whatever happens to be coincidentally occurring in their lives, incapable of literacy or even beginning to grasp the concepts that Im speaking about, let alone beginning to understand why Im speaking about them.

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    Only problem is VOLVO developers don't read this forum and they always fix bugs and problems years later .

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostdlr View Post
    Only problem is VOLVO developers don't read this forum and they always fix bugs and problems years later .
    and why do you think that is?

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    Probably the development team is small and they are focusing more on making hats, compendiums and stuff, since that's what makes money .

    Hiring more people means more expenses and less profit and that might explain why they are not doing it.

    There are lots of critical bugs that haven't been fixed since dota has been released, even though this forum is full of complaints ... like seing batrider coming out of the ground with firefly after blink (you can't click him,you can't stun him , he can just walk in and use ultimate on you), or the courier not delivering the items in fights ... and just stopping on one of your previous locations, most of the time getting killed by enemies.
    Last edited by ghostdlr; 02-27-2017 at 03:16 AM.

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    Tbh, I enjoyed low pri more than ranked, people actually knows how to play dota in low pri, the bois in ranked knows nothing other than right click, can't even use a nuke to fend off roamers. We need to reset mmr this boosting and acc selling business is really a cancer to dota

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