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Thread: [Bane] Fiend's Grip does not fully pierce spell immunity

  1. #1
    Volunteer Moderator bu3ny's Avatar
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    [Bane] Fiend's Grip does not fully pierce spell immunity

    Fiend's Grip is supposed to pierce spell immunity. Almost all aspects of it do, except for its damage. It does not apply its damage at all, so not even a 0 damage instance appears. 0 damage instances do matter in several cases, so it does make a difference, although a small one.

    For consistancy's sake, the spell should fully pierce spell immunity, not partially.

    Please, just call me buny.

  2. #2
    Basic Member bargost10's Avatar
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    It's like lich and sniper ulti and necro ulti ,they just apply disable /ministun but damage won't apply even if u alt-click on the ulti it says that.plus bkb spell immunity is seperate from its magic resistance which is 100% upon active time.

    (sry for my bad english)
    Last edited by bargost10; 03-21-2017 at 05:30 PM.

  3. #3
    That's the point of the ultimate when BKBs come into play. You lock down a strong BKB carry so your physical carries can melt them down. It steals mana from them, but protects them from any magic damage you attempt to do. Pure and Physical damage pierce it, but not Magical, only the stun/effect pierces BKB.

    TL;DR Magic damage does not pierce, disable does.

  4. #4
    Volunteer Moderator bu3ny's Avatar
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    And neither of you 2 actually read what was written in OP or watch the video.

    Spell immunity does not prevent any damage, not even magical. The 100% magic resistance reduces magical damage to 0.

    The problem with Fiend's Grip is, it doesn't fully pierce spell immunity (as compared to Dismember, which fully pierces, including its damage).
    Please, just call me buny.

  5. #5
    I read what was written, there's no need to be condescending. Pudge's ult for some reason pierces it, perhaps it has a hidden perk of doing Physical damage? No idea. I play Oracle plenty, and when he ults someone and I use Fate's Edict on the person about to get the ult it does 0 damage, so maybe it's just a glitch or it just pierces Omniknight's repel for some strange reason.

  6. #6
    Volunteer Moderator bu3ny's Avatar
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    You seem to not be aware of how spell immunity interacts with damage.

    It's explained in here

    All sources of spell immunity also set the affected unit's magic resistance to 100%. This leads to the affected unit taking no magical damage at all, not even from spells which pierce spell immunity. Their damage technically still hits the unit, but gets reduced to 0. This means they may still proc on-damage effects, since some of them do react on 0 damage instances as well. It also means that abilities which ignore damage reduction (e.g. Blade Mail) still react on it as well and apply their full effect.

    Since magic resistance only affects magical damage, the unit is still fully affected by physical and pure damage. If a piercing ability uses one of those damage types, it does damage the unit.

    If an ability does not pierce spell immunity, it does not attempt to damage spell immune units either, regardless of the damage type. In order for a spell to damage spell immune units, it must be set to pierce spell immunity, or it must be already affecting it in case of buffs/debuffs.
    So in our case, we have Dismember. This spell pierces spell immunity. Therefore, it does apply its damage normally. But the 100% magic resistance coming along with spell immunity reduces this damage to 0. But there are several spells which still react on 0 damage, because they react on damage before it gets reduced by magic resistance, or other kinds of reductions.

    Fiend's Grip, which also pierces spell immunity, has this little inconsistency. Unlike Dismember, its damage portion does not pierce spell immunity. So it does not apply its damage at all -> nothing gets reduced to 0 by the magic resistance -> blade mail (and several other seplls) have no damage to react on. This is an unecessary inconsistency, which goes against what the devs had aimed for with the spell immunity changes.


    Here is a list of all spells' interaction with spell immunity. The first list lists spells which fully pierce spell immunity, including their damage. Again, in case of magical damage, it gets reduced to 0, but the damage is still technically applied. For example, the list contains Flaming Lasso, Reverse Polarity, Wrath of Nature, Dismember and Viper Strike, all of which deal magical damage. All of them apply their damage against spell immune units.

    The second list right below list spells which also fully pierce spell immunity, except for their damage. Unlike the previous list, these spell don't attempt to damage spell immune units at all, but fully pierce spell immunity otherwise. A good example is Earthshaker's Echo Slam. The initial damage of Echo Slam is applied to spell immune units (again, reduced to 0 by the magic res), but the small echo waves do not apply their damage.


    And you can't compare this to Fate's Edict, since it does not have the property as spell immunity does. Both, Dismember and Fiend's Grip still apply their damage to units affected by Fate's Edict, both get reduced to 0. Blade Mail would reflect full damage here.
    Last edited by bu3ny; 03-27-2017 at 03:22 AM.
    Please, just call me buny.

  7. #7
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    Batrider Lasso with Aghanims is consistent with Dismember, Culling Blade, Reaper Scythe, and Assasinate. I'm not sure what other examples I can test atm, but Fiends Grip certainly seems like the odd exception here.

    Blademail seems to fully work in these cases as well, returning pre-reduction damage. Blademail didn't work on low HP reaper scythe target though, while it worked on non-lethal reaper scythes.

  8. #8
    Volunteer Moderator bu3ny's Avatar
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    ^ You can find all spells here

    https://dota2.gamepedia.com/Spell_Im...y_Interactions

    The 2nd list contains the non-consistent ones. Most notable ones are Ice Blast, Mana Void, Fiend's Grip, Echo Slam, Life Break and Poison Nova.
    Please, just call me buny.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLONIC-- OC DONUT STEEL View Post
    I read what was written, there's no need to be condescending. Pudge's ult for some reason pierces it, perhaps it has a hidden perk of doing Physical damage? No idea. I play Oracle plenty, and when he ults someone and I use Fate's Edict on the person about to get the ult it does 0 damage, so maybe it's just a glitch or it just pierces Omniknight's repel for some strange reason.
    Didn't you see the Kotl recall getting not interrupted by fiend's grip? That's the bug.

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