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Thread: Easy increase of mmr QUALITY (@ Valve)

  1. #1
    Basic Member Camel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Lightbulb Easy increase of mmr QUALITY (@ Valve)

    Hello dear Valve employees,

    I have noticed (and so did probably some of you) that you are using currently a system for mmr that was created for 1on1 games (current mmr system).
    Now you may or you may not think that how the mmr system works right now is just fine and that it at least to some degree really shows your true dota 2 skill.

    I think that the System is way 2 sticky. You have to be abled to fall or rise faster with great performance or low performance. Now you think ofc how can you teach a system who played well and who played bad, its just a subjective opinion. Well: What if you can Lose more mmr when your team reports you (each report gives you like a 10% increase in mmr lose) and you can win more mmr when your team is commending you?

    First of all commending is a completely dead end in dota atm. It has no use and theres no sight of any use for it in the future. Either my suggestion or a PREVENTATION from getting into lp has to be the use of Commendations in the future.

    But back to my main point: It feels like some people that are stuck in a certain mmr tend to become toxic and kill the fun for other players (which results in everyone playing bad), and yet they need 1000 games to fall just 1k mmr. Meaning a high mmr player can ruin a game for 9 other people in 1000 games without any punishment than having lp once or twice. Which means 1 player can ruin the game for 9000 people in "high mmr" games. That isnt just ruining the fun ingame but also the quality of the whole mmr system and how much credibility it has.

    With my suggestion the mmr system would be more open (for the motivation of every player to play well which is the essence of dota 2) and stop people from behaving like cavemen and dumbsters. Toxic people who play bad couldnt ruin as many games on high mmr anymore as they can right now. Bad behavior AND bad playing would be punished harder than ONLY playing bad or ONLY being toxic.

    Now does Dota 2 need more punishments do you think? I dont think so, I dont even think that would be a real punishment, since people would get where they belong faster, and stop blocking players with higher skill and higher performance to rise in the ladder.
    Last edited by Camel; 04-10-2017 at 04:01 AM.

  2. #2
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    The only relevant measure to rating should be whether you win or lose games.

    The opinion of others is not what player strength rating should be based upon. There's no straight-up correlation between being a nice guy and being a good player. Complying with the wishes of others should not allow you to remain at a higher rating than your win percentage would suggest. In fact, this kind of stifles the ability to experiment or even communicate. People's ability to judge good game decisions is, especially at low MMR, to put it carefully 'less than optimal'.

    Doing something that's unconventional, even if effective, would often give you less points, for no adequately explained reason now. It's already frustrating to deal with those that cling on to questionable conventions because 'that's what you do on the hero'. E.g. cue other players rewarding the Necrophos to build no armour or play as position 5. This stuff is already problematic with people giving up on a game because another person is not playing their hero how the first person thinks they should.

    What I would maybe be willing to put up with is training a RNN to predict whether a player would win or lose a game with as input some of the game's metrics. (LH/DN, Hero pick, K/D/A, Building damage, etc.), if the model doesn't agree with your case then there's a good chance you played well in a lost game or badly in a won game, to put it into words, the cases are:
    1) Your team lost, but you did the right things.
    2) Your team won, but not really because of what you did.
    Even then that shouldn't affect ratings; these are both actually more likely to be flukes than encountered every game, and of course people are going to game a system like that if it really affected your ratings (for which there is historical evidence, by the way), so maybe just a message at the end of the game would be enough.

  3. #3
    I can agree with you that current system is far from perfect, but you cant use commends or reports to improve it. It's way too easy to abuse.

    The biggest issue with current system is that it doesnt take in game actions in to consideration at all, and cannot recognize true skill of the player. This can be easily proven by placing 9k mmr player in to 1k bracket. This 9k player will still have to win 231241 of games before he reach his true mmr and milions of games will be ruined until he reach his real bracket. Ofc, someone could ask, what 9k is doing in 1k bracket, but smurfing and boosting exist since they added ranked games.

    Another problem is that new accounts can join ranked with unknown skill lvl. If your account is close to the average mmr you may often end with players who are calibrating, they can be 9k pros or 1k noobs. If your team get's the first you win, if you get the second he's gonna feed like no tmorrow.

    On top of that there's also duo queue allowed in solo queue with a lot of players who dont take it seriously, because they will lose only party mmr, while those unfortunate solo players in their team will lose solo mmr.
    Read this if you want to know why so many games is very one sided:

  4. #4
    Basic Member BEST_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Many players who up 7-8-9k start play on smurf accounts and up on smurf accounts - 7k tho. U cant increase quality in ranked when ppls sale accounts to newbie players.
    When i play dota 1 on iccup many years ago there was gud ranked (every season) pts down and leaders was on leader board.
    Attachment 48181
    My old profile where i play million years ago. xDD)))
    Attachment 48182
    I dont remember that there somebody sale or boost accounts. Because every season mmr down and no reason to sale accounts coz its will rebooted after season end. Lul. Every season tryharders always will be in top. It was created milion years ago and it was better than this in dota 2. And after season end, need give to ppls something, some very gud reward, its will motivate players play on their main accounts.
    There was if avarage 1000-to 2000 every game give u +125pts. When avarage higher for example from 3000 to 4000 every game give u +175 sometimes +203 its just example i dont remember. Will be great if dwotwa two have something like this... lul.

    -P.S. Peoples from leader board, who was in top, after season end, they start new season with 1, 2 or 3k mmr.
    Last edited by BEST_; 04-11-2017 at 04:45 AM.

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