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Thread: Higher Zoom Height: A Feature

  1. #11
    It's for balance purposes. The more you see, the more you are aware of potential ganks. If you play some more you'll get used to current zoom limit sooner or later.

  2. #12
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    This zoom taboo is really nonsense. A 20% increase in the camera distance would make the game much more enjoyable while changing almost nothing balance wise. All this arguments about ganks and that freaking Mirana arrow are hilarious. What makes you survive ganks are wards and map awareness, being abel to zoom out a little more wont save you. Do you really think you can dodge an arrow because you saw it 0.05 sec earlier??? And no matter how far you can zoom out, you will never see ganks coming because of a feature called 'Fog of War'.

    I really wish the developers would be more open minded about this. The only thing this promotes is unfair advantage as there are a ton of hacks to increase the camera distance for both HoN, LoL and Dota 2.

    If Valve makes an option, to play with more zoom or not, I'll bet you more then 90% of the players will use more zoom. It's just better to play.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by IWantToHelpAsMuchAsIcan View Post
    It's for balance purposes. The more you see, the more you are aware of potential ganks. If you play some more you'll get used to current zoom limit sooner or later.
    Why are you afraid of having a more competitive community? Fog of war limits what you can see anyway. In the instances where you see a gank sooner because of higher zoom I would say the gank was poorly executed. Seriously, less moving the camera around and more focusing on your hero is a positive for everyone. I don't want luck kills because my foe had his camera out of position.


    Quote Originally Posted by Teboga View Post
    This zoom taboo is really nonsense. A 20% increase in the camera distance would make the game much more enjoyable while changing almost nothing balance wise. All this arguments about ganks and that freaking Mirana arrow are hilarious. What makes you survive ganks are wards and map awareness, being abel to zoom out a little more wont save you. Do you really think you can dodge an arrow because you saw it 0.05 sec earlier??? And no matter how far you can zoom out, you will never see ganks coming because of a feature called 'Fog of War'.

    I really wish the developers would be more open minded about this. The only thing this promotes is unfair advantage as there are a ton of hacks to increase the camera distance for both HoN, LoL and Dota 2.

    If Valve makes an option, to play with more zoom or not, I'll bet you more then 90% of the players will use more zoom. It's just better to play.
    Indeed. I remember the evolution of the first person shooter, many people whined and cried over weapon switch delay and reload delay as shooters became more realistic. They argued it took the skill of fast weapon switching out of the game. In reality it made shooters more cerebral and intuitive at the same time. Much the same here.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Het View Post
    Seriously, less moving the camera around and more focusing on your hero is a positive for everyone
    nobody is going to agree with you. go play SMITE if you think camera management is such a needless part of the dota gameplay.

    Indeed. I remember the evolution of the first person shooter, many people whined and cried over weapon switch delay and reload delay as shooters became more realistic. They argued it took the skill of fast weapon switching out of the game.
    not only is this irrelevant, but i grew up playing quake and CS and i never heard these complaints made about those types of games? is duke nukem 3D your FPS prototype and you're just mentioning petty gripes or are you saying call of duty and other modern warfare games are the pinnacle of FPS evolution?
    Last edited by vladhood; 03-31-2012 at 06:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vladhood View Post
    nobody is going to agree with you.
    Judging from all the threads on the subject it actually seems you are in the minority and by a large margin.

  6. #16
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    Guys the argument "Fog of War limits your view" is just invalid. Let's say you are near a teammate and therefore you're lacking of Fog of War because your mate gives you extra vision. (Shared Vision between teammates, nothing new I guess..)
    So, let's say that the camera angle is like it is right now: Your teammate actually sees Pudge who wants to hook you. You didn't notice him yet (although he is on your minimap) because you can't see the model on your screen. Your teammate tries to warn you but it is too late because acustical warnings + your response are too slow.
    The same scenario with a higher Field of View: Your teammate actually sees Pudge who wants to hook you. You did notice him because he actually is IN your OWN Field of View and your response time is lower because you directly saw him yourself.
    Fog of War doesn't only limit what you must not view. Fog of War limits what you are not allowed to see and reveals something if you are allowed to see what is behind it. But that doesn't guarantee you that you WILL and HAVE TO see it. And THATS why camera movement actually rises the required skill. Please do not discuss about this Pudge example, there are tons of other examples which do not depend on any skill shot.

    Regards

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurt View Post
    And THATS why camera movement actually rises the required skill.
    You should have read the thread and you are contradicting yourself. If it becomes easier to deal with certain situations, naturally those same situations on the other team are more difficult. It's a shift in skill from the carpal tunnel mundane (constant camera flicking) to a greater focus on initiation and execution. Currently playing Dota 2 is like playing a shooter with an FOV of 50-60 rather than a more natural 90-100.

  8. #18
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    I personally would be interested in experimenting with a larger field of view, but I do understand the dota 1 players being concerned about it.

  9. #19
    Basic Member d.phoenixxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Het View Post
    You should have read the thread and you are contradicting yourself. If it becomes easier to deal with certain situations, naturally those same situations on the other team are more difficult. It's a shift in skill from the carpal tunnel mundane (constant camera flicking) to a greater focus on initiation and execution. Currently playing Dota 2 is like playing a shooter with an FOV of 50-60 rather than a more natural 90-100.
    I'll give you some scenarios where skill is concerned.

    1) Sniper Assassinating Puck/QOP/AM. Because of the way Assassinate works, it is possible to dodge the projectile with Blink/Phase Shift at the right time. If my FOV is larger, its easier for me to see Sniper projectile earlier and I can dodge it faster.
    Result: Indirect Nerf to Sniper.
    Action Needed: Need buff to Sniper's Assassinate.
    2) Ancient Apparition's Ice Blast. Because of Ice Blast being a global sniping skill, with a larger FOV, it is easier for AA to aim it while still noticing whats directly happening around him.
    Result: Indirect Buff to AA. You will definitely see players playing AA with the largest possible FOV.
    Action Needed: Need to nerf AA, because it becomes too easy to aim AA's Ice Blast, since its easier to predict enemy movements and the Ice Blast projective movement time when fired, with a larger FOV.
    3) Heroes with Blink/Windwalk skills and the interaction with Smoke of Deceit. Because Smoke of Deceit has a 1 second break time, costs 100 gold and has a reasonable long cooldown time, heroes with a larger FOV and escape skills can easily spot heroes coming out of Smoke of Deceit much faster and escape to safety.
    Result: Direct Nerf to Smoke of Deceit.
    Action Needed: Need to buff Smoke of Deceit cooldown/cost/break distance.

    All of the above are just a few noticeable consequences I can predict from a larger FOV.
    It is important to note that I am NOT against a larger FOV, Im against adjusting for a larger FOV. I prefer that everyone has the same FOV to make it balanced.
    If everyone is going to play with larger FOV however, there are a lot of balance changes that must be made.

    The above are 3 crucial examples I highlighted, especially the one involving Smoke of Deceit, which is a very high level competitive ganking tool that actually takes advantage of that 1 split second to gank/engage in a teamfight that could be game-winning.

    That is the primary reason why Im against adjusting for a larger FOV, many different skills/items/abilities/heroes would definitely have to be changed. It might not seem like much to you, but these indirect buffs and nerfs are significant and will really affect gameplay and game balance and would require some drastic changes.
    Currently, I think the game is balanced, and this critical balance should not be tilted because it will upset a lot of people who have gotten used to the gameplay mechanics.
    Last edited by d.phoenixxx; 04-03-2012 at 05:40 PM.

  10. #20
    Basic Member Noya's Avatar
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    Well, this is balance discussion and Not a "Map Issue", I think you are wasting our time here...

    There's a Console Command for what you are asking for, it's dota_camera_distance xxx IIRC, but its only possible to activate it in Cheat Enabled Private Lobbys. See what I did there?

    I will repeat this again and again, meh, I will make it my signature.

    Don't fix what it's not broken.

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