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Thread: Official Matchmaking Feedback Thread

  1. #2421
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    Quote Originally Posted by dzcc View Post
    I'm sorry to say this but match-making system is horrible.
    At least 50% of games are not balanced and definitely stomp. No fun for both sides at all!

    You say, 50% win rate is not enforced. Yet, it is certainly a result of the current alghoritm.
    I aggree 50% win rate is ideal and it might look like a success to you. However it's clearly not a good sign for current match-making system.

    As you know, the "joy" of the game is not about winning or loosing. Of course winning is better than loosing but still;
    i'd much rather a "balanced 60 minute game that i lose" than "crushing the opponent and getting "beyond godlike" title at 20th minute of the game".

    here is my suggestion:

    all players starts with 1000 rating
    lowest rating is 1 and the highest rating is 2500 (or no highest rating at all)

    for a match around 1500 rating; No players ABOVE 1550 rating and BELOW 1450 rating are included to any of teams.
    teams are balanced accordingly at avarage rating. (both sides have an avarage rating of 1500)

    winner team gets 75 ratings to SPLIT among players (it can be shared equally if performance based splitting is not possible) (in case of performance based splitting: it would be a shame if a decent carry gets higher rating and a decent support gets lower rating)

    other team looses 75 rating accordingly.

    these ratings can be hidden from players. i dont really care as long as i play with the players at my skill level.

    Of course these numbers are a little arbitrary but i m sure you got the idea.

    No more big performance level differences in a team*. Everyone at similar levels. Better team-play wins. Thus, those players gets higher rating and play against higher rating players.
    I'm sure 50% win rate will come as a result in long term.


    *It's not really a good idea to split new players among teams. if a player has around 150 wins, he should never ever play with a player who has 10 wins or etc. it really hurts to see players at low skill level feeding to high level opponents (naturally) when you are expecting a team play. If everyone plays with similar players at his skill lvl, everyone would be much happier.
    What about if a player with a very high rating parties up with his friend who has a very low rating?

  2. #2422
    Quote Originally Posted by dzcc View Post
    you can increase the upper limit (or put no upper limit at all). i doubt that you read what i wrote. some of your questions do not make sense. still, i ll try to answer:

    - what if this 1500 rated player can play only one hero which was taken by enemy?
    - he will suck at the game. they will lose. he gets lower rating till he learns other heroes. this will really be a minor case if we compare to the current feeding of the new players and "stomp-cycle". besides, you need to know what other heroes do to play the game. if he knows only one hero, he wont have a chance against an experienced player anyway. therefore he will have a lower rating. he will play against new players. he will die less and enjoy the game more.
    My point is that such 1500 rated player doesn't really have to change his mind and he can play with that one hero all the time. Hence, he may even be as good as some other players from 1700+ rating but only when playing that particular hero. That's why imo systen shouldn't allow players to pass certain rating until they are able to play at least 1 hero for different role.


    Quote Originally Posted by dzcc View Post

    -How do you think performance can be calculated without making it abuseable?
    -As i told earlier: "winner team gets 75 ratings to SPLIT among players (it can be shared equally if performance based splitting is not possible)" After all dota is all about team play.

    -Not telling players what is taken in to account will not change anything.
    -Nope. it changes. if you dont know how system works you cant abuse it effectively.

    -as anyone who have some common sense will assume that it's probably related to his k/d/a, gpm, exp which will result in playing for stats
    -Thanks to the hero performance bars, People are already playing for stats. People do not annoy each other over kill steal anymore (not like in the old days) because it is too common now (unfortunately).

    And i ll say this again. these numbers are arbitrary.
    You really have to be naive if you think that ppl wont figure out what may affect their performance rating. Moba and ARTS games will never have balanced MM system near the starting point, because even pro and every unskilled players have to start from this point which will result in some unbalanced games as MM need's some data before it can improve future games. If you play over 1k games you should be pretty close to your "true Elo".


    Show me available replay where you did great but your team sucked and i'll find plenty of things which you could've done better

  3. #2423
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    Quote Originally Posted by SynneX View Post
    What about if a player with a very high rating parties up with his friend who has a very low rating?
    i'm pretty sure at least 90% of players join solo. (except teams of course)

    therefore, i dont think that it will be a major problem.
    But this is a good question.
    I thought and couldnt figure out an appropriate way to blend them in.

    because whole purpose of this system is matching the similar lvl players.

    Quote Originally Posted by IWantToHelpAsMuchAsIcan View Post
    Show me available replay where you did great but your team sucked and i'll find plenty of things which you could've done better
    i don't claim that i m so pro or whatsoever. I know there are much more better players. But this works for them too:
    assume this system works right now. a guy has 350-400 wins , another guy (for example me) has 100-120 wins. he doesnt want to match me as a teammate. i dont want to match him as an opponent. Beauty of this system is we wont get matched. everyone plays at his own level.
    I aggree that this rating system may have missing some points; (Since i thought about this while drinking coffee at the 10 minutes break time)
    But if a professional team give a little thought about this, I believe this system would be an alternative.

    isn't this the whole purpose of this forum's existance?

    Btw you also think i am naive because i want to play a well balanced game.

    you sound like you actually enjoy stomping the other team. it is really meaningless to play a match which has a score like 21-6 with no towers lost at 15th minute.
    if you can enjoy this game, you are right, this rating system won't do any good.
    But if this system goes on, i ll simply leave DOTA cause it has absolutely no fun at least half of the time i play.

  4. #2424

    Russian tards (not all russians are tards, just those who join the wrong servers)

    I do that, yes! If people abandoned games, or played bad, so they got reported, they shouldnt be associated with. Simple as that. Im so tired of the match making not even throwing more people into low pri, since i had russians fucking up my game, AGAIN today. Doombringer and Alchemist roaming in the woods and just destroying every chance of a victory! I'm beginning to think the dota dev team, need a wake up call on this one. Russians are just fucking retarded if they join european servers and dont even listen to english/german/french/spanish - yes i've tried all the languages above, and NO repsonse. Just feeding, kill stealing, and team killing.
    MID: 58419668

  5. #2425
    Quote Originally Posted by dzcc View Post
    I'm sorry to say this but match-making system is horrible.
    At least 50% of games are not balanced and definitely stomp. No fun for both sides at all!

    You say, 50% win rate is not enforced. Yet, it is certainly a result of the current alghoritm.
    I aggree 50% win rate is ideal and it might look like a success to you. However it's clearly not a good sign for current match-making system.

    As you know, the "joy" of the game is not about winning or loosing. Of course winning is better than loosing but still;
    i'd much rather a "balanced 60 minute game that i lose" than "crushing the opponent and getting "beyond godlike" title at 20th minute of the game".

    here is my suggestion:

    all players starts with 1000 rating
    lowest rating is 1 and the highest rating is 2500 (or no highest rating at all)

    for a match around 1500 rating; No players ABOVE 1550 rating and BELOW 1450 rating are included to any of teams.
    teams are balanced accordingly at avarage rating. (both sides have an avarage rating of 1500)

    winner team gets 75 ratings to SPLIT among players (it can be shared equally if performance based splitting is not possible) (in case of performance based splitting: it would be a shame if a decent carry gets higher rating and a decent support gets lower rating)

    other team looses 75 rating accordingly.

    these ratings can be hidden from players. i dont really care as long as i play with the players at my skill level.

    Of course these numbers are a little arbitrary but i m sure you got the idea.

    No more big performance level differences in a team*. Everyone at similar levels. Better team-play wins. Thus, those players gets higher rating and play against higher rating players.
    I'm sure 50% win rate will come as a result in long term.


    *It's not really a good idea to split new players among teams. if a player has around 150 wins, he should never ever play with a player who has 10 wins or etc. it really hurts to see players at low skill level feeding to high level opponents (naturally) when you are expecting a team play. If everyone plays with similar players at his skill lvl, everyone would be much happier.

    I totally agree on this one, it would be great with some equally matched players. However the rating system might be a problem, if people leave after a game without spending their points. I think you should still get point per match, but just for the whole team, eventually bad players will mess up their games so they will get sorted out by themselves. Just my oppninon.

    And again: PLEASE ADRESS COMMUNICATION, IT IS STILL A MAJOR PROBLEM WITH RUSSIANS JOINING EUROPEAN AND AMERICAN SERVERS AND ROAMING AROUND WITHOUT SUPPORTING THE TEAM, AND IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO WAKE THOSE PEOPLE UP, BECAUSE THEY DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ARE SAYING!

  6. #2426
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    Dec 2011
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    i am pretty sure that if you take dzcc's suggestion and change a few details (no min and no max rating, marginal difference between skill ratings is based on search range, allowing premades with skill difference to queue, not just keeping the same average on both teams but the same skill ratings on both teams, players gain/lose rating based on their distance to the match mean rating), you will end up with the current match making system.
    Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

    Contributions i'd like to highlight:
    My Suggestion: Coaching System
    My Sticky: Intended Changes List
    My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

  7. #2427
    Quote Originally Posted by dzcc View Post
    i'm pretty sure at least 90% of players join solo. (except teams of course)

    therefore, i dont think that it will be a major problem.
    But this is a good question.
    I thought and couldnt figure out an appropriate way to blend them in.

    because whole purpose of this system is matching the similar lvl players.



    i don't claim that i m so pro or whatsoever. I know there are much more better players. But this works for them too:
    assume this system works right now. a guy has 350-400 wins , another guy (for example me) has 100-120 wins. he doesnt want to match me as a teammate. i dont want to match him as an opponent. Beauty of this system is we wont get matched. everyone plays at his own level.
    I aggree that this rating system may have missing some points; (Since i thought about this while drinking coffee at the 10 minutes break time)
    But if a professional team give a little thought about this, I believe this system would be an alternative.

    isn't this the whole purpose of this forum's existance?

    Btw you also think i am naive because i want to play a well balanced game.

    you sound like you actually enjoy stomping the other team. it is really meaningless to play a match which has a score like 21-6 with no towers lost at 15th minute.
    if you can enjoy this game, you are right, this rating system won't do any good.
    But if this system goes on, i ll simply leave DOTA cause it has absolutely no fun at least half of the time i play.


    Game itself is very snowbally, and in low brackets it's even worse because of players who like to play carry only heroes etc. If one team have good support while other have 5 carries the difference can be huge and you can't force anybody to pick and play support for you. The thing is that after lot's of games you'll get to a point where your teammates will be very close to your level most of the time (except situations where someone stack queue with some newbe). There's no such thing as "good players stuck with noobs in every game". You may get bad luck for a while but if you are really good player who deserve to be in higher bracket you'll reach it after some time. It's a simply math, think about it this way: "If im good then my team can have only 4 bad players, while enemy team can have 5 of them, therefore I should win more games than I lose if i'll play well".

  8. #2428
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    Check box:

    [ ] I want to be better matched against my opponents. I don't mind waiting a long time.

    Then you check that box and wait 15 minutes for a decent game.


    WHY? WHY?????? you still keep matching me with inferior players or against pros when i win "too much"? And by too much I mean 51.5%+ winrate.

    This is NOT the fair way to enforce 50%. This is the DUMB way. Whoever suggested that kind of MM is just LAZY and DUMB.

    I always end up in a lose streak. It's damn easy to realize you are playing with newbies seeing their map awareness, their build, their lane behavior, what they complain about... first 4-5 fights and you can be completely sure.

  9. #2429
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    useast AP unplayable. Always teamed with 3-4 man team of foreigners. Solo queue is the worst.

  10. #2430
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcosMcc View Post
    This is NOT the fair way to enforce 50%. This is the DUMB way. Whoever suggested that kind of MM is just LAZY and DUMB
    Quote Originally Posted by EricTams View Post
    - We don't enforce a 50-50 win rate (Maybe we should?) instead we always try to make the best match possible.
    Please stop.

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