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Thread: Official Matchmaking Feedback Thread

  1. #2451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Release View Post
    Sorry Blash I forget with you moderating it's impossible to criticize our lords over at Valve HQ. Your argument is that instead of fixing a clearly broken MM system of which 99% of this huge thread have agreed upon for months with absolutely no improvement at any stage I should go play on the American servers with a ping of 200 K.
    you should not play on unpopulated servers and expect matchmaking to be perfect.
    no matchmaking can create good matches with a small player base. it is simply not possible.
    got it?

    Quote Originally Posted by c4c View Post
    I'd prefer to play with as low ping as possible, unlike some of my teammates who ping over 150 from different countries.
    we all prefer to play with low ping.
    we all prefer to play an even match.
    those are facts that apply to almost everyone.
    the hard part is that at odd hours you have to decide:
    server1: low ping, bad matches
    server2: medium ping, medium matches
    server3: high ping, good matches

    you might argue that the good matches arent perfect either and that would be along the line of many of the posts here.
    my point is: dont argue about the bad matches on server1 because those are most likely not going to change (because it is not possible to create better matches) unless we get more players (and servers).
    Last edited by blash365; 11-07-2012 at 11:18 AM.
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  2. #2452
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    can u explain to me how can a fucking noob like this https://dotabuff.com/players/97325928 can play on the ,,very high,, bracket?
    ,,There is no need to have a patch-anticipation-thread one week early, filled with high expectations,,

  3. #2453
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    Quote Originally Posted by blash365 View Post
    you should not play on unpopulated servers and expect matchmaking to be perfect.
    no matchmaking can create good matches with a small player base. it is simply not possible.
    got it?


    we all prefer to play with low ping.
    we all prefer to play an even match.
    those are facts that apply to almost everyone.
    the hard part is that at odd hours you have to decide:
    server1: low ping, bad matches
    server2: medium ping, medium matches
    server3: high ping, good matches

    you might argue that the good matches arent perfect either and that would be along the line of many of the posts here.
    my point is: dont argue about the bad matches on server1 because those are most likely not going to change (because it is not possible to create better matches) unless we get more players (and servers).
    So if a player has an option to play on a server closer to home (e.g brazil, europe, russia) and they queue on useast that is somehow acceptable why? Why is it that I have to play on uswest to avoid these players when I live on useast? I shouldn't have to queue on a server further away from my home location to not play with teammates i can't understand or ping low enough to play properly.

    All you are doing is justifying why there shouldn't be a region lock with fail points. My hours are not odd (12pm EST-11pm EST). It is possible to create a better match by allowing an option to play with individuals only from your selected region but somehow you guys are against that. I have literally played with south american players who say "haha you have to play with me" and proceed to do nothing but feed. I have played with europeans who do not speak any english and do whatever they please in game.

    Playing on useast beyond the hours of around 4pm to 9pm is useless. You are guaranteed to have south americans/europeans/russians on your team if you solo queue.

    Unfortunately you are also part of the problem because you are not American and do not understand the issues with solo queue. Typing in this thread is a dead end and dota will continue to be plagued by these issues.
    Last edited by c4c; 11-07-2012 at 12:13 PM.

  4. #2454
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    Quote Originally Posted by blash365 View Post
    (because it is not possible to create better matches) unless we get more players (and servers).
    Ahaha, this argument is so invalid that only blind fanboiz can keep comforting themselfs with it. How many players is exactly needed for this MM to work properly? How many should be enough? Why 3rd party clients can make balanced games with a way smaller player base? They don't even need as large pool just as a 10 players(which were assorted by a rough 3 or 4 skill levels in before). This MM has a pool of 10 000+ *times larger than these 3rd party clients, yet in comparison to them it fails at what is it supposed to do, to make balanced games.

    One example: DLG client, Average players online per day: 1260.72 and you don't even have to wait 1 minute to get a properly balanced game at will.
    Last edited by realceFrog; 11-07-2012 at 03:26 PM.

  5. #2455
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    dotalicious doesnt exactly make it easy to play on it. nobody who is new to dota will start to play on dotalicious. most of the players playing there do already know the very basics of the game.
    just take dotalicious as the needed population to have a good matchmaking on high - very high matchmaking.
    if there are 10k ppl online, you have to be aware that those are most likely the sum of all players on all servers. so a optimistic assumption would be 10k / server_count = server_playerbase. which is already pretty low.
    now be aware of the fact that most of those people are playing and not searching a game. the search is pretty quick and it is quite safe to assume that there are ~100 ppl searching at the same time on a server at peaktime.
    now also consider that skill is a plateau system where lower plateaus are usually more populated. so if you want to find a decent game (which i assume you do), you will most likely disregard at least 50% of the searching player base.
    given all those facts and assumptions you can expect a few premades and maybe 1-2 suited players searching at odd hours. it takes ages to find more suitable players and slowly but steadily the matchmaking will try to create a match with the players it has which is most likely going to be a bad one.

    p.s.: sl2 games are very hard to find on dotalicious on odd hours too. they usually rely on games finishing and players rejoining the next game as a group. sl3 games rarely happen at all on odd hours. the only occasion to start one once the last "run of sl3 games" has dried out is when there is a good row of sl2 games and the higher rated players decide to open an sl3 game instead (usually because they dislike someone).
    Last edited by blash365; 11-07-2012 at 02:01 PM.
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  6. #2456
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    Man, are you lying or your brain just calculate it wrong becouse of your emotional favor to Valve? It's like you know to what result you want to get/believe and your brain just bend the facts and numbers for you to get there without even trying to contradict with itself. Try to put down your emotions and do the math again with a bit of critical thinking.
    Even when there are not enough players at odd hours for sl3 or even for sl2 games the MM can still make a balanced games with those players at sl1, becouse they all have their "performance" number and wonder wonder it works to balance games out with it.
    Lets just not argue about every single little thing over here and lets use some common sense, shall we? There are plenty of 3rd party clients for dota which are able to provide of a balanced games for the little amount of dota players there still is and they share. Why is Valve not able to do the same with a pool of how many? 130000 online players at peek? Even when its worldwide, even when there's just a fraction of them at odd hours, it still shouldn't be a problem for mm to make an only balanced games at a fraction of time of what it is now. And if Valve have a problems with it, then maybe they should look out for the mm devs of these 3rd party clients to help them out with it, becouse obviously they can do it much better with a way less than they have.
    Last edited by realceFrog; 11-07-2012 at 03:17 PM.

  7. #2457
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    Blash can you explain if your assumptions are correct why the MM system has not noticeably improved at any point during the Beta? I started last September over a year ago and the MM system sucked then, fine not many players, middle of this year 70k odd online mm still sucks OK and now after another huge wave of invites and regularly 120k people online worldwide guess what? The MM still sucks. How many is enough before we can start to see a reasonable MM system?

  8. #2458
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    matchmaking already has improved to a certain extent.
    at one point before the international 2 mm development appears to have been suspended for another project.
    that doesnt necessarily mean that the current matchmaking is bad. it is still superior to most of the third party matchmaking you recalled.
    as already said those plattforms had a smaller but skillwise more compact playerbase. they also had longer searchtimes and a visible rating making captaining a team easier.
    a system like dotalicious also had huge skill variations so it was pretty random where you played when you were midskilled. that randomness made it more bearable since you sometimes carried a game by far, sometimes you were the measely support.

    not sure what invite waves you are talking about. the most recent one was most likely to account for the incoming diretide mode and the lesser demand of mm games as a result of it.
    since the player base is devided due to diretide, no improvement can be expected of that (until diretide is over).
    Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

    Contributions i'd like to highlight:
    My Suggestion: Coaching System
    My Sticky: Intended Changes List
    My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

  9. #2459
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    Quote Originally Posted by blash365 View Post
    dotalicious doesnt exactly make it easy to play on it. nobody who is new to dota will start to play on dotalicious. most of the players playing there do already know the very basics of the game.
    just take dotalicious as the needed population to have a good matchmaking on high - very high matchmaking.
    -
    a system like dotalicious also had huge skill variations so it was pretty random where you played when you were midskilled. that randomness made it more bearable since you sometimes carried a game by far, sometimes you were the measely support.
    -
    MM is still superior to most of the third party matchmaking you recalled.
    -
    as already said those plattforms had a smaller but skillwise more compact playerbase. they also had longer searchtimes
    Now i see, you are just trolling, as someone else mentioned it already before. Stupid me.
    Last edited by realceFrog; 11-07-2012 at 04:11 PM.

  10. #2460
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    lol @ people still using the argument there would be too few active players for proper matchmaking. such a fail.
    There's really no reason why Dota 2's matchmaking shouldn't work as good as Dotalicious', at least. It's kinda sad how one guy (emmeran) can create a better algorithm than valve.

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