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  1. #1
    Volunteer Moderator slowreflex's Avatar
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    Official Matchmaking Feedback Thread

    After some feedback from the devs, we are attempting to make feedback more useful for them. Please provide your feedback regarding matchmaking in this thread only. We only appreciate precise, objective, constructive, and to-the-point feedback. Simply saying, "I like/hate matchmaking" does not help the devs to improve it. When posting please post in the following format:

    LIKES

    - I like x aspect of matchmaking.
    <some comments if you have further suggestions to improve this aspect> (OPTIONAL)
    - I like y aspect of matchmaking.
    <some comments if you have further suggestions to improve this aspect> (OPTIONAL)
    - and so on

    DISLIKES

    - I dislike x aspect of matchmaking.
    Explain why you do not like it. Give examples (with matchID if possible).
    Finally, you must tell us what we can do to improve this aspect. (MANDATORY)
    - I dislike y aspect of matchmaking.
    Explain why you do not like it. Give examples (with matchID if possible).
    Finally, you must tell us what we can do to improve this aspect. (MANDATORY)
    - and so on

    If you do not follow the proper format in this thread (esp giving your reasons) or post off topic, your post(s) will be deleted. Do not reply to others posts in this thread. If you keep posting again without following the proper format, you may have your posting privileges revoked.


    EDIT: From April 11th: EricTams advised that changes have been made to the matchmaking algorithms to utilize the number of games played amongst other things. Please base your views on matchmaking after this point.


    General Information about Matchmaking (note that the quotes link to fruitful topics that you might want to read too)

    Vlog by Purge summarizing many aspects of the current matchmaking

    Quote Originally Posted by EricTams View Post
    As far as Matchmaking is concerned none of those buckets [low, medium, high] exist - We match on a continuous scale.
    Quote Originally Posted by EricTams View Post
    the easiest way to think about it is as a percentile rank so 100 levels.

    There is a maximum range that we match to that decreases based on your party size. This is why when you have a stack of 5 you end up taking longer to match since we can only match you to a few percent of the population.
    Quote Originally Posted by EricTams View Post
    Typically the trade off in matchmaking is wait time versus match quality. We could always try and slow down the match time in an attempt to provide higher accuracy matches but this will get better naturally as we add more players so I'd rather keep match times snappy.
    Quote Originally Posted by EricTams View Post
    - High skill games are definitely an area that will benefit as we get more players. It's also an area has had issues with match times in the past so I'm sensitive to how long this group needs to wait.

    - There can be no guarantee of how a game will play out even with perfect matchmaking. Hopefully someone can help me out with the details of that recent tourney where the winner of the winners bracket was in the finals and got destroyed in one game then destroyed the other team in the next. I think it's actually a good thing that the outcome of a match isn't set from the beginning but depends on the decisions that individuals are making during the course of play.

    - Building on the previous point, even with good matchmaking there are plenty of things that can go wrong:
    * Being conterpicked or having a bad team comp (overdependence on farm, no heroes that can stop a push, lack of DPS, bad teamfight, etc.)
    * Allowing teammates to lose a lane early
    * Luck
    * Natural variations in individual performance
    * People trying a new hero or strategy

    - We don't enforce a 50-50 win rate (Maybe we should?) instead we always try to make the best match possible. I'm always happy when I see someone with a win rate close to 50% though since it means that we haven't been skewing one way or the other in giving matches that were too hard or too easy. I totally agree with your desire to have fewer stomps though.

    - We don't try to match high skill players with low skill players instead we try to get 10 people that fit together the best. Parties can sometimes create a very big gap in skill on a team though and are generally the reason for anything that seems really wacky. Remember too that people people will always have good games and bad games so that person that seems terrible might just be having an off day instead.

    - The outcome of a games is determined more by the best person on a team rather than the worst player. My assumption was originally the same as yours but I had to change my mind once I saw the stats showing otherwise.
    Battle Points and Battle Level are not used in matchmaking.

    Performance Bars are not used in matchmaking.


    Q: What makes a "high quality" match?
    Quote Originally Posted by blash365 View Post
    a perfect match in a perfect world is where everybody has the same (correctly measured skill).
    a "high quality" match tries to get as close as possible to that result.

    Q: Do you add the percentile points for each team member and swap players untill both teams are even, or something more complex?
    Quote Originally Posted by EricTams View Post
    We have two stages to create a game from Matchmaking

    1) Try to find 10 players that all match well to each other

    2) Try to split these 10 players into two groups of 5 that will create a balanced game

    Q: What about if someone who reported someone else, are they ever matched again?
    Q: Does matchmaking take players who only play one or two heroes into consideration?
    Quote Originally Posted by blash365 View Post
    No. At least not yet.
    Q: Does matchmaking take the type of hero a player likes to play (support, pusher, carry, random...) into consideration?
    Quote Originally Posted by blash365
    No. At least not yet. But there are threads about it: [Suggestion] Pick role before sign up for a game!
    Q. Does the commend/report system affect ones percentile?
    Quote Originally Posted by blash365 View Post
    No.
    General advice:
    Quote Originally Posted by blash365
    the longer you search for a match, the broader the search range gets. unbalanced matches might be results of a broad search range. either change to a better populated server (in case you are playing at odd hours) or simply reset the search to restart at a finer search range.
    Last edited by blash365; 09-26-2012 at 06:53 AM. Reason: added more information about mm
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  2. #2
    Volunteer Moderator slowreflex's Avatar
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    - I like that the majority of my games seem evenly matched. If there are bad players on my team, there are usually bad players on the opponents team as well.
    - I like the speed of the matchmaking system. I play on EU and it usually takes 2-3 minutes to find appropriate opponents.

    DISLIKES
    - I dislike playing against pre-made teams when it seems that my team is mostly (if not all) solo players. I don't mind if it's a pre-made from a lobby that don't play often together. It's the pre-mades that play together regularly that I feel should only be matched against similar pre-mades. If there was a way to track how often players play together and factor that into the equation I think that could help things.
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  3. #3
    Basic Member Catma's Avatar
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    LIKES
    - I like that the majority of my games seem evenly matched. If there are bad players on my team, there are usually bad players on the opponents team as well.
    - I like the speed of the matchmaking system. I play on EU and it usually takes 2-3 minutes to find appropriate opponents.

    DISLIKES
    I don't like the quality of matches when playing with friends. With friends that are around the same skill level, most matchups are extremely hard and we lose very often. Take a look at my friend stats from DOTAbuff:

    https://dotabuff.com/players/26261460

    Very few of these groupings even approach 50% win rate. Of course the sample size is small, but I pretty much just lose game after game when playing with friends, and have to quit, and stay signed out of steam so nobody asks me to play.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by slowreflex View Post
    LIKES
    - I like that the majority of my games seem evenly matched. If there are bad players on my team, there are usually bad players on the opponents team as well.
    - I like the speed of the matchmaking system. I play on EU and it usually takes 2-3 minutes to find appropriate opponents.
    Watcha playing bro?TF2?
    I can rarely find an evenly matched,even in high priority teams are unbalanced,in 1500 hours i found 4-5 evenly matched games
    2 words
    "five carries"
    Also the matchmaking system forces you to play with retards so you can lose and have 50% loss rate

  5. #5
    Volunteer Moderator trena99's Avatar
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    I like that when I use matchmaking in my area (Europe) the game doesn't take more than 2 minutes to be found.
    I like that I can go on multiple locations such as US east, Europe to shorten the waiting times.
    Also I like the games I get matchmade overall. They are even, When I have lower skilled players in my team often the case is on the enemy team.

    Dislike
    I dislike matchmaking against premade teams. Often the case is all stacked enemies are lan, and have better coordination and of course better oversight. While I go solo matchmaking I would want to play against other people that also soloed matchmaking.
    As an improvement to this I want a separate matchmaking, one for premades andone for solo.
    Last edited by slowreflex; 04-09-2012 at 02:56 AM.
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  6. #6
    Basic Member BLABLAFU's Avatar
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    Likes:
    -Short queue times for -ap games.

    Dislikes:
    -Long queue times for SD and especially CM.
    Possible Solution: Increase search range for SD and CM games or adjust search range depending on number of players searching for the gamemode in the region you are queuing for. Will result in less balanced games, but I think it shouldn't be a problem for CM, as people queuing for it are usually better and more competitive.

  7. #7
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    Likes

    The chance that the spectator can see any public game.
    The queue speed match up (almost always)



    Dislike

    Playing in a solo queue with or versus Premade of 2/3/4/5 player.
    Playing with player that have less than 1% of the times i played in the beta.
    Playing with people i already reported/ignored.
    Playing unbalanced match regard if i'll win or lose.
    Playing match that last 5 minute then a team afk waiting for lose.
    Being chosen to fill up a premade to play agains another premade.
    When people dont accept the queue and you just jave to restart the queue instead of having an high priority.
    Being matched with player that dont have any knowledge even of the hero they pick.
    The forced win or lose streak that the MM used to put if u're going too good or too bad.
    Having player that speak an unknow language and keep spamming even if u ask or tell them that you dont understand.

    Wish

    A real solo queue where you can queue only alone.

    A Public MMR so we can report to something the error, mistake, strange behave that the MM is having , so it can get fixed asap.

    More balanced game overall.


    In my opinion the MM is the most important tool of the game before even the balance of the hero, if the MM do it wrong you can have even the most balanced game with best graphic and best sound in the world but still the player wont enjoy it.
    Last edited by anarkino; 04-09-2012 at 08:53 AM.

  8. #8
    Volunteer Moderator DLRevan's Avatar
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    LIKES
    - Acceptable queue times in my region (SEA), around 5 minutes max during peak times.
    - High priority matchmaking (when someone declines) does appear to work; even if more than one person did not accept a match is usually found again almost immediately after.

    DISLIKES
    - The system matches people with few games played (eg, less than 10 or 20) with and against people with dozens of games played. This often causes problems even among newer players who selected the 'high skill' option upon first login, as they are unfamiliar with the differences between Dota 2 and other ARTS games.

    Some possible solutions may be to rank new players temporarily lower despite their selected skill bracket until their performance can be assessed, limit the number of new players that can be assigned to any one team and/or match the number of new players between the two teams. This will help new players learn the game without too much pressure, or make it easier for experienced teammates to guide them.
    Last edited by DLRevan; 04-09-2012 at 04:09 AM.
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  9. #9
    Basic Member d.phoenixxx's Avatar
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    - Short queue times for AP mode at non-peak and peak hours, 5 minutes on average for non peak and 30 seconds on average for peak. (Findings are from 31st March 2012 to 9th April 2012, after the Syllabear patch. Only for SEA servers.)
    - Efficient Matchmaking that often pairs me with and against high-skilled opponents and allies who contribute to playing a serious competitive game.
    - When I am in a team of 5 friends going into matchmaking, my team tends to get matched against other team of 5 friends, ensuring a great intense match, and not a pubstomp.

    DISLIKES
    - Matchmaking for Captain's Mode (CM) can be improved. There are too little teams playing CM mode and some incentive or in-game reward should be given for teams of 5 to actively try out Captain's Mode. Currently, Captain's Mode is very deserted and takes 10-15 minutes to find a single game during peak hours, and no game can be found during non peak hours. (Findings are from 31st March 2012 to 9th April 2012, after the Syllabear patch. Only for SEA servers.)
    - Every time a new patch is applied, Southeast Asia servers have a chance of failing and results in people being unable to play due to Matchmake malfunction.

    Suggestion to reduce the number of people complaining about unfair matchmaking:
    Introduce a system similar to a Starcraft 2 Season league, let players know how they are being paired up with. A lot of people are now complaining that they have X hundreds amount of wins but are being paired with or against people with X tens amount of wins.
    If they are able to see the system, such as whether a certain player is in Bronze, Silver, Gold, etc, they can gauge their own skill level and report feedback better.


    Current feedback is flawed and biased because most people do not know their own skill level, think they are too low or too high, and give skewed reports according to what they perceive.

    Suggestions are in RED.
    Last edited by d.phoenixxx; 04-09-2012 at 03:33 AM.
    He's the hero this community deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt his identity, because he can take it, because he's not our hero. He's a silent buffer, a watchful nerfer. An IceFrog.

    My Speedtest Result

  10. #10
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    LIKES
    -Short queue time solo and even with party
    -Most of the time it is good in balancing the teams
    (because if a player has 1/1 win loss ratio [most players do]the system did a good job)
    [suggestion: if you could implement a setting to add into account the way a user plays the game because players are not jacks of all trades so some1 might be good at support but suck at carry , so if you match players that always go support with those that always go carry the team might have a better score then a team made out of carry players]

    DISLIKES
    -The fact that teams with 3k+ games combined can be put up against teams with under 1 k games combined
    (most of the time the first team just massacres)
    -The long queue times for SD,CM

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