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Thread: Fan of Knives Bug

  1. #1
    Basic Member Norroar's Avatar
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    Fan of Knives Bug

    (Sources: DotA 2 and DotA testing, and Advanced Mechanics on PlayDotA. link)

    In DotA, there were quite a few skills that were based off of Fan of Knives, having 400 AoE and 0 damage. These includes, but are not limited to;
    - Ring of Basilius
    - Power Treads
    - Magic Stick

    Now you might be asking yourself: "So what? That shouldn't affect anything!". Well. It does. Albeit doing 0 damage, the Fan of Knives would still pull neutral creeps, and since the default acquisition range of neutral creeps are per default 300, and Fan of Knives have 400 AoE, it means you could effectively pull neutral creeps 100 units further away. That's a difference for stacking and pulling, if you're playing as a melee (and to some extend, ranged) hero.

    Example: I am playing Anti-Mage, and I want to stack the Radiant's default pulling spot for bot lane. Neutral creeps have a 300 acquisition range (the range you need to be within, before they start attacking and chasing you), and as you can see in this picture -- I can't pull the camp. I am simply not close enough. However, if I use my Power Treads (400 AoE), I will (should) be able to pull the neutral camp.

    There are other select areas where it may have a notable difference -- especially if you are trying to double/triple stack.

    - - -

    Summary:
    < See Above >

    Repro Steps:
    1. Stand within 400 units of a neutral creep.
    2. Activate Power Treads, or any other FoK-based item/skill with 0 damage.

    Result:
    Neutral creeps won't aggro, and thus renders this method ineffective (useless) for stacking or pulling.

    Expected Result:
    Neutral creeps should aggro.

    - - -

    If this has been officially determined intentional, then I apologize. I was not able to find any answer to this specific topic.
    Bug Brainstorming: I'd say that while this is a "nerf" to some aspects of the game, it could be deemed as a mechanical limitation in the Warcraft III DotA.
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  2. #2
    Volunteer Moderator bu3ny's Avatar
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    This is even more usefull when it's night and the neutrals are suppose to sleep, because the 0 damage instance makes them wake up attack you.
    Please, just call me buny.

  3. #3
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    i think they replace this mechanism as the never sleep neutral creeps..
    so you can pull neutral creeps just like daytime

  4. #4
    Volunteer Moderator DLRevan's Avatar
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    Moved to Brainstorming for now.

    TBH, although useful, it is probably one of the most unintuitive mechanics to come out of the WC3 version. My guess is that this is intended.
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  5. #5
    Volunteer Moderator bu3ny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLRevan View Post
    Moved to Brainstorming for now.

    TBH, although useful, it is probably one of the most unintuitive mechanics to come out of the WC3 version. My guess is that this is intended.

    .. It takes less than a second to change that in DotA1. Just put the AoE of the base spell to 0 or to 1.



    Quote Originally Posted by BLANGSAK View Post
    i think they replace this mechanism as the never sleep neutral creeps..
    so you can pull neutral creeps just like daytime
    that's going to get changed, along with neutrals not reacting to damage when the source isn't visible.
    Please, just call me buny.

  6. #6
    I would like to see this make a comeback, its not something gamebreaking but it does give a good edge if you know how to use it

  7. #7
    Basic Member 1323's Avatar
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    i would +1 every lil skillllike thing in dota every day.

  8. #8
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    +1 from me too, however the current jungle is very buggy and unattended, I'm afraid it will take long before this gets done, if ever.

  9. #9
    Volunteer Moderator DLRevan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bu3ny View Post
    .. It takes less than a second to change that in DotA1. Just put the AoE of the base spell to 0 or to 1.
    Or change valid targets to none. There's more than one way to avoid it.

    But it makes little sense, even among a number of Dota 1 mechanics that don't really make sense. I would put this with 'fixes' like Pugna's secondary attack that could have been easily changed in D1.
    Always read and follow the forum rules. If you need help from a moderator, use the report button ()
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  10. #10
    Basic Member SlyGoat's Avatar
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    Yeah this hits me as a "that shit makes no sense at all" change. I don't think Valve will allow things like this that make absolutely no sense. You have to understand, Dota2 is going to be a high quality retail title from a major developer - they have a massive following of people who won't have a DotA background and will not understand why some buggy mechanics exist just because they existed in the original map.

    Just look at some of the buggy mechanics that were removed from TF2 compared to its original mod counterpart which had a WAY bigger impact on the game than little things like this have on DotA - bunny hopping/strafe jumping for example. If rapidly changing the type of your power treads for some reason gave you +20 movement speed in DotA, it would have a way bigger impact than this little trick does, and I guarantee you it would be removed in Dota2.

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