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Thread: [SUGGESTION] Team Balance / Team Builder

  1. #11
    Basic Member Automedic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EtherBoo View Post
    I'd also throw out there that if a player who normally plays carries, gankers, or initiators chooses a support hero because the team needs it, this could align with GN's idea of rewarding good community players. The guy who says "Screw you, I'm picking Drow" when there are already 3 carries gets nothing; but the guy who normally would pick Drow says "OK, I'll grab Rhasta" gets some extra points or currency to use towards a hat or something.

    I'm sure the downside is people will try to farm, but hey, that's what these forums are for; to discuss ways of making the game and community better :-).

    Thoughts?
    And a player who normally chooses support heroes will not get rewarded for taking the support role his team needs because he tries to get a decent team setup by default? Sorry, but -1 on that point. It would just force support players (like me) to play carries most of the time (even if they don't make any sense in the current team setup) just to get rewards. Besides, we don't really need this kind of reward. Those who deliberately choose team roles that aren't covered yet are usually rewarded... with wins.

    Other than that, I really love your idea. A clear +1 on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Panter_d17 View Post
    This. is. just. so. awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by kl4user View Post
    Also, this doesn't promote experimentation, alternate ways of thinking. This will just influence noobs to follow something, not really making them improve. And this wouldnt help the mm system at all. A bad player is a bad player. If he wants to pick his favorite carry, he'll pick him regardless of a graph, of having already 3 other carries, of the enemy's team lineup, etc. Hell, this applies to any player, highly skilled players too.
    Of course it would improve a noob's gameplay. Geez, when I started playing Dota I though CM was a nuker because she had 3 "offensive" damage spells. If I had the option to see what role this hero usually covers I might have skipped a few rather painful "OMG noob leeve dis game you suck i hobe you die frum cancer!!1!1!11oneeleven" lessons.
    Last edited by Automedic; 05-23-2012 at 09:10 AM.

  2. #12
    Basic Member Panter_d17's Avatar
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    It is suggested for noobs making this an option will not have any impact on people that doesn't want to use it. Anything you put in game is useless to people that think they know the best so by that logic putting it in a tutorial or making tutorial in general is useless. Teams can be roughly scored, and in order for someone to experiment he first needs to learn something.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panter_d17 View Post
    It is suggested for noobs making this an option will not have any impact on people that doesn't want to use it. Anything you put in game is useless to people that think they know the best so by that logic putting it in a tutorial or making tutorial in general is useless. Teams can be roughly scored, and in order for someone to experiment he first needs to learn something.
    I said to put this thing in a tutorial, so, of course, tutorials aren't useless by any logic I used. Here, the noob would learn, and in a much warmer environment.
    In fact, I can say a team's score goes from 0 (no carry) to 5 (full of carries), so a team of jah'rakal, mortred, darkterror, mercurial and azwraith is way better than a team of leshrac, rylai, alleria, ish'kafel and rhasta. But this is meaningless.

    Of course it would improve a noob's gameplay. Geez, when I started playing Dota I though CM was a nuker because she had 3 "offensive" damage spells. If I had the option to see what role this hero usually covers I might have skipped a few rather painful "OMG noob leeve dis game you suck i hobe you die frum cancer!!1!1!11oneeleven" lessons.
    We already have this. Valve even updated the whole role thingy

  4. #14
    Basic Member Panter_d17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kl4user View Post
    I said to put this thing in a tutorial, so, of course, tutorials aren't useless by any logic I used. Here, the noob would learn, and in a much warmer environment.
    In fact, I can say a team's score goes from 0 (no carry) to 5 (full of carries), so a team of jah'rakal, mortred, darkterror, mercurial and azwraith is way better than a team of leshrac, rylai, alleria, ish'kafel and rhasta. But this is meaningless.
    If you put it in a tutorial people that want to use carries will use them regardless of team needs so tutorials ARE useless by your logic. As for the second part first one would be rated 2.8 and second 1.6 meaning first one is better but they both suck. If you think 5 carry team should be rated with 5 that just proves that you need this more than you think :P

  5. #15
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  6. #16
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    I like the graph idea! However, IMO the graph should be visible to teammates only.. So let us / enemy guess each opponent's team composition, main strength..

    also it would take a little bit of time to collect the ratio of each role for every hero, and also from multiple professional references for the data to be accurate.

  7. #17
    Basic Member Almadiel's Avatar
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    The concept of counters is entirely dependent on the metagame and how you lane, which changes over time and should not be reinforced by any automated system. Even roles are highly fluid, depending on your play style and the prevalent strategy. Just picking a "carry" hero doesn't automatically make you a carry, you have to play that role yourself.

    They will be adding a recommended heroes system, but it will be driven by your teammates' recommendations which I think is the right way to go.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by andzero View Post
    I like the graph idea! However, IMO the graph should be visible to teammates only.. So let us / enemy guess each opponent's team composition, main strength..

    also it would take a little bit of time to collect the ratio of each role for every hero, and also from multiple professional references for the data to be accurate.
    Agree with the part that it should only be visible to team mates only.

  9. #19
    Basic Member teh_rockerer's Avatar
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    I've been playing DOTA for some time, so as a seasoned player who often watches pro replays and studies various strategies and hero line ups, this sort of tool would not be useful to me; BUT i would love it if this was added to the game. I cannot tell you how many games I've had to endure where the entire team picks carries (and frequently the wrong ones, such as a clinkz and a riki against a bounty hunter) and they end up failing because no one gets to farm properly. This feature would really benefit newer and less serious DOTA players, and help to lessen the amount of "OMFG NOOBS SOMEONE BUY KFC IM CARRY" that we all have to endure in chat.

    Just one downside: Making a game too noob friendly tends to cause problems... just saying.

  10. #20
    Basic Member Panter_d17's Avatar
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    Seeing enemy team score could make more players choose required roles. If opponents have good composed team it would encourage player to chose wisely and if opponents already messed up it could leave some space for freedom. At least that's what i thought, what would be downside of seeing enemies rating? Its aimed at people that cant guess enemies strength and weaknesses so that's out.

    As for the counters, you do chose specific role with your play but all of them have counters, and you would be given all possibilities. Teammates suggestion are fine in mid and high levels but low level players that this is aim for are in no way qualified to make those suggestions.

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