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Thread: Recommended starting heroes should be changed

  1. #11
    Basic Member Mittsies's Avatar
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    CM and Necro are extremely difficult to play effectively, especially in pub games. If you don't have excellent game-sense, you will die over and over again. They are slow and fragile, very team-reliant, and must be very careful of their positioning. Drow/Sniper are simple concepts ability-wise but require a lot of experience, map-awareness and game-sense to do good with (not to mention they need lots of last-hits, and have no real creep-farming skills).

    All of these heroes have no inate escape mechanisms, making them very unforgiving. These heroes will die over and over to Pudge, Tiny, etc. Not a good experience for new players.

    New players (especially those who came from League of Legends) need heroes with escape mechanisms so they can learn from their mistakes without dying in the process. They need to feel like they had a chance to begin with.

    Good examples would be Morphling, Queen of Pain and PotM as they are challenging to master, but are forgiving to newer players due to mobility and AoE nukes that can be used to farm creeps or gank heroes.
    Last edited by Mittsies; 05-27-2012 at 03:01 AM.

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  2. #12
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    remove recommended heroes

  3. #13
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    They should add AM and riki to the list, which both are pretty easy to play. (riki perma invisible which is never getting countered in pubs and AM with blink and 2 passives)

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasielll View Post
    remove recommended heroes
    Do you have a reason for wanting it removed? If you do I would like to hear it. As a new player I have found the function very helpful and have seen improvement in my overall game. I don't want to see it removed I want to see it improved upon.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigT View Post
    I have found the recommended starting hero's function to be great (I've only played around 10 games). Once I started using it I was getting positive scores and started having a lot more fun playing. I have found Zeus, Skeleton King, Lion and Shadow Shaman to all be pretty noob friendly. I plan on continuing through the list until I've completed it and then moving on to other hero's. The only one I have had difficulty with so far is Faceless Void, I don't know what it was I just couldn't live or get a kill (maybe take a look if he should be on the list). Definitely keep a function like this in the game and point it out to beginners and in your tutorial.

    Also the card style selection screen is a bit overwhelming. I recommending going back to your grid view or a mix of both.

    I'll let you no how the other hero's work out for me on the list.
    I was able to test out Drow Ranger, Crystal Maiden, and Venomancer today on the list. I had a blast with Drow Ranger and earned my best score yet 14/5/8, was also 1st overall in game. So in my experience as a noob I would say keep her because I found her pretty easy to figure out and control. Crystal Maiden was more of an average hero, more around the intermediate level of a player. I had a good beginning with her but as the match went on my score went from positive to negative and I just couldn't last. Finally Venomancer, I found him to be pretty fun and pretty easy to learn. He wasn't the best but was no where near the most difficult hero I have played. Ended up with a slightly positive score.

    I would say take a look at Crystal Maiden on this list and keep the other two.

    I will continue going through each as a first time player of these hero's and let you know how it goes.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by winxp View Post
    • Juggernaut
    • Morph (still item dependent but at least has an escape)
    • Ursa (simple right click hero)
    Seeing Ursa always named as a noob hero is quite disturbing to me, as you said it's a simple hero but it has a lot more to offer rather than just right-clicking all the time.

    I do agree that he's fairly easy to master, but saying he's a noob hero when a big part of the players don't gank side lanes early on, don't check runes for mid, don't stack neutrals, don't support the team in any other possible way (ganking/counter-ganking) and just farm woods for half or more of the game... seems to me that people fail to play him effectively.
    Not to mention that people think that Ursa can only be a carry, for god sake late game he should be (with the other if there is) the initiator, he already gets a lot of hp with his items no reason to use him as sniper.

    Well that's just my opinion, in the end i think new players should be better with heroes with some sort of escape (blink, invis, etc).

  7. #17
    Basic Member 1337_n00b's Avatar
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    I think it wouldn't hurt if I reposted one of my previous messages. Just a bit of personal opinion on who should be in the roster and who should not. Yeah, it's unfinished.
    • Earthshaker
      Not in hell should he be recommended for new players. The only upside would be a semi-reliable stun, but... He is squishy, he has mana problems, is mana dependant and melee and can screw his entire team up. No.
    • Sven
      Sven really does look like something you'd recommend for a new player. With a reliable AOE stun and a somewhat decent escape mechanism, he looks like the man for the job. It should be said, however, that the newer players will have a hard time exploiting him to his full potential - Sven requires positioning and farm. Still, in spite of that, he can still contribute a team fight and be quite decent later in the game. At least he only requires general skill and not specific hero skill. Yes.
    • Tiny
      Tiny possesses two useful disables and can quickly deliver a lot of damage, and yet it may often be tricky - he is a hero that is useful as he is, but tough to actually master. Mana problems and ganking timelines are to be taken into consideration, and this might very well be a problem for a newer player. Still, I would say that an Avalanche-Toss combo is not so hard to figure out, and even if not used properly, still turns out to be useful. He also has many different builds to him - this might be good or bad depending on how you look at it. Questionable; yes?
    • Kunkka
      Kunkka is extremely dependant on proper position and specific hero skill. A newbie will quickly find himself banged by a crowd of angry, angry gentlemen. No.
    • Beastmaster
      Beastmaster relies heavily on his summons, which are tough to control properly for a newer player. If left with just his axes, aura and roar, he appears to be not as useful as he seems and may soon become unsatisfying. He also possesses many different item builds and is admittedly flexible. All in all, No.
    • Dragon Knight
      With his ability to farm, deal some burst damage and survive great amounts of punishment, Dragon Knight and his neat attack animation suit a newbie quite well. He may not be instantly rewarding, like some other heroes, but he sure is easy and useful in that, also allowing the player to learn how to farm properly and how to execute unusual skillbuilds (2-1-3-1-3 with a delayed level 2 ultimate is rather unusual) while not being really forced to do so. Yes, he should be a part of this roster.
    • Clockwerk
      Clockwerk has great ganking and initiating abilities that can only be executed properly by an experienced player. I myself can't figure out how to play him properly, that is having played him for a lot. He requires map awareness and specific hero skill - all while being quite easy to bring down and quite chaseable unless he gets off a good set of cogs or has a scepter. No.
    • Omniknight
      A great support hero, Omniknight is one of the most timing and positioning-heavy heroes in the game. A bad Guardian Angel can throw your game out of the window, while a timely Repel can pull it back out. And not in hell is that easy or obvious. Like if that was enough, Omniknight himself is not so hard to bring down and relies heavily on items which aren't easy to farm when you're a support. No.
    • Huskar
      Huskar is an unorthodox hero with a specific playstyle, which is not that hard to figure out, when you think about it. A total newbie won't make it, but as soon as he gets in touch with the flow of the game, he can quickly get into Huskar and his quirky skills. But health management, farming and gank timeline problems are more than enough to ward new heroes off Huskar. No.
    • Alchemist
      Folks, this is the Alchemist. I'm really not sure that anybody, let alone newbies, should play him. A farm-dependant hero with a ton of health and a disable that can stun himself... No.
    • Brewmaster
      Brewmaster is just one step above being able to fully fit into this cathegory. He has mana problems - but they aren't as dire as Earthshaker's, for instance, he is melee - but his attack animation is formidable, all in all he's nice and neat, up until you realise that his ultimate summons require control to be used to their full extent, which is very much needed in the game. Only it has been proven that by just right-clicking and sometimes using Earth's stun, one can achieve great things in teamfights. That is, in pubs. The person who did this was me. This is why his position is questionable, with more arguments for a No, because Storm is vital too.
    • Treant Protector
      Treant is a very unusual hero, possessing an array of varying skills, from a complicated invisibility spell to a large teamfight spell. It is not easy to figure him out at all, and while he does have an escape mechanism and doesn't require a lot of farm, I would still not recommend him for new players. No.
    • Axe
      Axe is weird, really. All you need to do as him is make sure that a lot of enemy creeps attack you; later in the game - that heroes attack you and you're near to them. And it is not easy to figure out the line between playing Axe right and suiciding 1v5. Questionable, and I feel like saying No.
    • Pudge
      Do whatever you want, but thanks to Hexor, Dendi and fragmovies, noobs and newbies will still want to play as Pudge, even though the name of his game is specific hero skill. No, but who would listen to me?
    • Sand King
      Sand King needs farm. He craves for it. Without farm, he's a walking stun. Don't even count Sand Storm - we're talking newbies here, and the mechanics of this skill are complicated as shrumps. His ultimate, while powerful, requires a great deal of positioning. No
    • Slardar
      See Sven. Slardar is quite easy at first - rather tanky, has a stun (that is harder to land), one more stun, an ultimate that you can't possible fail at using and even an escape-chasing mechanism. And, similar to Sven, he requires general skill to be really powerful. Only a newbie Sven's presence will be bigger thanks to the AOE ranged stun. Still, Slardar fits. Yes.
    • Tidehunter
      Take Earthshaker, and make it all better for a new guy. This hero can survive some punishment without a lot of farm, he has a very easy to use chasing nuke, a third skill which you can just spam per CD when an enemy is near and the HOOMPALOOMPA ultimate that, when not used perfectly, still can make a lot of trouble. Yes.
    • SKELETON KING
      GOTTA LOVE THIS MAN - AT FIRST. HE HAS A GREAT ATTACK ANIMATION, SINGLE ACTIVE SPELL YOU DUMBSHIT, AND THREE PASSIVES. THE PROBLEM IS, YOU HAVE TO MANAGE TO MANAGE YOUR ITEMS ACCORDINGLY AND POSITION YOURSELF PROPERLY. MAKING A FORCE STAFF FOR A MELEE STR CARRY IS NOT A VERY OBVIOUS WAY OUT, AND IT ALSO IS CUSTOMARY TO QUOTE ARNOLD SCHWARTZNEGGER WHENEVER YOU DIE. IF YOU WANT AN EASY HERO - THEN IT'S A YES, IF YOU WANT TO BALL OUT OF CONTROL - NO, HOLD YER HORSES KID.
    • Lifestealer
      One of the easiest junglers in the game, Lifestealer can farm fast, he can farm quick, he is tough to kill and can be a killing machine against certain lineups. The challenge of using Rage and Infest properly is a challenge a newbie can take on. I would call him a good starter hero. Yes.
    • Night Stalker
      This hero is unique in his own way - you should instantly start ganking as soon as it's nighttime. You are the hunted before the crack of twilight, and in that position you are quite comfortable thanks to a decent HP pool; and as soon as the night takes over the battlefield, you must become the hunter. And start thinking of planning your ganks et cetera. And not get killed. This is quite tough for a newer player - especially considering that later in the game, Night Stalker becomes a HP tank with a slow and a silence instead of the deadly hunter of the night. No.
    • Doom Bringer
      With his simple skills, Doom Bringer turns out to be an unexpectedly complex hero. You need to count your enemy's levels to use the nuke to its' full potential, the escape mechanism is sometimes better left untouched, the farming skill also grants you an ability to steal skills from neutral creeps - skills that you will have to use. And a bad Doom can decide the outcome of a teamfight. No.
    • Spirit Breaker
      Only 2 active skills, and yet so darn complicated, Spirit Breaker is a very questionable hero himself. Still, a new player will find it tough to coordinate your Charge ganks, to skill him the right way and to build him the right way. He is a questionable candidate, but I'd rather say No.
    • Lycanthrope
      A decent jungler and a good laner, Lycanthrope possesses powerful summons, has carry potential and is an outstanding pusher. He is also known as "The Meta". This hero is not very complicated, though proper wolf control can be tricky, but is not always needed. Yes.
    • Anti-Mage.
      Do I even need to comment. Yes.
    • Drow Ranger
      Drow is quite interesting - she's hella simple, she's easy to get used to, but... She is quite hard to play as. Farming is a challenge thanks to her abysmal animation and damage till she hits level 6, and switching between orbs is a pain. In the end, she doesn't have an escape mechanism either. And yet I wouldn't say that it is that drastic. Yes.
    • Juggernaut
      Juggernaut has a decent escapement mechanism and magic invulnerability, can heal himself and has a very decent crit. And an ultimate that can either spell doom to a single enemy or spell a failure for the player. All in all, he has a huge problem - all of his skills are too good to be missed. This might cause some confusion... But he is relatively easy and not that farm-dependant. Questionable, but I'd stick with Yes.
    • Mirana
      No, God, please, no. I don't want to see all those horrible arrows and terrible leaps with no ultimate whatsoever again. THERE IS NO NO BIG ENOUGH
    • Morphling
      A newcomer sure would like a ranged carry with a decent nukescape mechanism. But having to manage stats and use your ulti properly... This really is complicated, I won't lie. He also needs heaploads of farm. No
    • Phantom Lancer
      Like if commanding an army of illusions of a very squishy hero with mana problems wasn't enough, you're also on a timed run towards your Radiance, and you'd better move quickly. If you're not going Radiance, then scrap that and stick with what was said in the first sentence - it is more than enough. No, that's not very fun for a new guy.
    • Vengeful Spirit
      Oh, joy. A stun, a scouting ability, and a quirky ulti. The latter is quite hard to use properly for a newcomer, but he may just get it right enough for him to be useful. Everything here is just wonderful; Venge is a nice way to start learning how to support. Only she's boring as hell. Yes, she should be recommended for newcomers.
    • Riki
      Don't get me started, it is not easy. Sure, he is invisible and has a blink ability. And yes, it is tough to play him properly. Smoke Screen timing and hero positioning are of utmost importance. And a newbie is very likely to fail at both. No.
    • Sniper
      Sniper has two active abilities, one of which is very often forgotten, and two passives. He also has little to no HP. Same for attack damage. And movespeed. All in all, he's just a big gamble - either you farm properly and become a power later on, or you fail miserably. Your farming skills have to be honed. I don't think that a new player can handle that. In fact, he'll likely feed his buttocks off. No.
    • Bounty Hunter
      Bounty has a neat escape mechanism and great ganking abilities, but timing your Jinada strikes and applying Track to proper targets is a challenge. Also, the item and skillbuilds aren't very obvious. All in all, his position is questionable, and I'd rather say that it's a No.
    • Ursa
      Jungle for a couple of minutes, do Roshan, farm your BKB and Bl- Sorry, I just dozed off. Our Ursa Major is rather easy, works well as a jungler for a newcomer, is quite rewarding if his enemies are at least a bit dumb and doesn't have a very varying itembuild. Yes.
    • Lone Druid
      Shall I spend my time here or. Oh, nope. I won't. No.
    Heroes this user should seriously reconsider ever picking again.

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  8. #18
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    Essentially new players should not be playing carries. Carries are supposed to win the game for your team, and being new to the game whilst being expected to win the game you most likely don't understand is not feasible. New players should learn support first I think, that way they learn and appreciate the game mechanics and gameplay better.

    I know playing support is the hardest role in the game, and carry is the easiest (which is why I don't understand why so many people fail so badly at carrying), but it is easier to fail as a carry then as a support. Since being a support you are more or less item independant you need not worry about getting a lot of farm. A concept that many new players do not truly appreciate the importance of. They will be instructed to ward and will learn more by seeing it happen, then by being raped as AM, Void, Clinkz or any other carry.

    My main point is, if you do not do well as a support it has a smaller impact on your team then if you are the carry. Because a good carry will win the game even if one of the supports is not up to par. But a support can't win the game for a fail carry (assuming the other team is not in the same boat as you). New players should learn carry last, since it is the easiest role to play but the most noticible if you don't perform.

  9. #19
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    [*] Alchemist
    Folks, this is the Alchemist. I'm really not sure that anybody, let alone newbies, should play him. A farm-dependant hero with a ton of health and a disable that can stun himself... No.


    Excuse me, but you are insulting one of my favorite heroes!

    Not sure that anyone should play him?!?!?!?

    THIS IS MADNESS!

    Alch is one of the best, farming is a joke to him within 30 mins you can have phase, vanguard, radiance, and hyperstone (AC if you are having a boss round) and then it is GG my friends you mow everyone down and damage tickles him.

    Dont diss the Alchemist or you get the acid..

  10. #20
    Basic Member DarkLite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicoman View Post
    Dont diss the Alchemist or you get the acid..
    That's almost as threatening as "Don't diss the Crystal Maiden or you get the Arcane Aura"

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