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Thread: Balancing hero roles (LOTSA READING)

  1. #11
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    Overhaul Update 1 changes documentary
    Heroes can have up to 5 categories
    That's it, it is such a fuss about which hero is more specialized in which role and having "must-mention" traits like disable is really troublesome when it comes to assigning points. As such, sorry Card System, but I took a look at it again and I'm sure it can support 1~2 more role icons before it gets too clustered. It also served very well for the new sub-categories I added. Balancing hero ratings became easier as less points get ignored and the sub-categories will fill up those that were lacking before this.

    Sub-categories
    These are fillers and those whose rating looked horrible compared to others (and some of them even have unfilled points!) issue is gone. It also solved the Durable issue with heroes like Razor and Viper. This way, some of the heroes who have very specific roles get well distributed ratings (due to the fact that maximum rank for a category is only up to 3 stars). Overall, newcomers don't get the misconception of "imbalance on paper", and this also further explained the "normal" playstyle of each hero more specifically.

    Thats all, folks! Recheck the table as most of them will be at least slightly altered (inclusion of sub-cat).
    Revisions reverted to 1 and 0 so I don't confuse the heck outta myself.
    Feedback is appreciated (As well as you taking a look at them)

  2. #12
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    You're missing heroes' ability to push and anti-push and so forth. Some hereos like Broodmother can push the hell out of a lane while other heroes like Earthshaker/Techies can anti-push. This is important in the current metagame.

  3. #13
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    so are you implying the heroes for DotA are not balanced on your criteria? Or just how they're categorised and thus interpreted by gamer. I assume you're also not suggesting various heroes (ie.falls under too many categories) to be nerfed or skillchanged. Lil confused.
    I think the newer heroes to be added into Dota have been much more role orientated if that's helpful at all....QIN, that woodcutter dude, and the bird wizard (been so long since D1)

  4. #14
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    ^^ sorry further reading suggests this is purely for user information (a guide of sorts)....i think

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by k0n View Post
    You're missing heroes' ability to push and anti-push and so forth. Some hereos like Broodmother can push the hell out of a lane while other heroes like Earthshaker/Techies can anti-push. This is important in the current metagame.
    Pusher = push. As for anti push, I will figure things out... I can think of a few great anti-pushers (Supreme burst huge AoE), but at the current situation I'm not sure whether I want to add a Anti-Pusher sub-category. Give me some time to review.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbfamous View Post
    ^^ sorry further reading suggests this is purely for user information (a guide of sorts)....i think
    I will just add a summary on main post for now. Read again maybe?

  6. #16
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    Great topic! I didn't read much of the table, but the concept is freaking awesome.

    Also, as I'm also learning the game. Could carries go:
    1 star = Semi-carry (Needs 1 item and can carry a game, but will be destroyed by other carries with more items)
    2 stars = Soft Carry (Needs 2-4 items and can carry a game, but often needs to farm more than semi-carries)
    3 start = Hard Carry (Needs 5-6 items and can carry a gme, requiring intense and constant farm)

    I could also think of a "Summoner" tag, for those that create units with the skillset. Broodmother comes to mind with 3 stars, and Dark Seer maybe with his ult as 2 stars.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutley View Post
    Great topic! I didn't read much of the table, but the concept is freaking awesome.

    Also, as I'm also learning the game. Could carries go:
    1 star = Semi-carry (Needs 1 item and can carry a game, but will be destroyed by other carries with more items)
    2 stars = Soft Carry (Needs 2-4 items and can carry a game, but often needs to farm more than semi-carries)
    3 start = Hard Carry (Needs 5-6 items and can carry a gme, requiring intense and constant farm)

    I could also think of a "Summoner" tag, for those that create units with the skillset. Broodmother comes to mind with 3 stars, and Dark Seer maybe with his ult as 2 stars.
    1 Star carry: Semi-carry, some of them are powerful early-mid but in order to scale into late, they need items to become useful again.
    2 Star carry: Your typical carry, with just cores + 1 luxury they can go around town with non-carries.
    3 Star carry: Your farm farm farm hard carries. Once they reach their peak they can sometimes easily do a team wipe.

    Peak: 3 > 2 > 1

    As for "Summoner" tag, it doesn't really serve anything but play method. Summoners usually means that they can jungle and push; Its a 2-in-1.
    Might have exceptions, can't remember now.

  8. #18
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    This an interesting analysis. I think Valve should keep every hero in comparison, when assigning roles, with a spreadsheet like this one.
    The levels 1-2-3 were a good idea so were the categories.
    In Durable I think you should introduce Magic Resist, as in Magina is durable because of his magic resist (maybe a M?) pudge has good magic resist so maybe you should allow more than one specification from higher to lower relevance in pudge's durable section maybe or 3 (T/M) (M for magic resist). Magina should definetely have like a 2(M) in durable and viper maybe 1(M/B).

    Now I'm just putting this idea out but how about a cattegory for tendency to have damage focused in ganks? This would be a correlation of fragility, high damage output and likelyhood of finding that hero in middle of the fight, like a 3 for CM and leshrac, 2/3 for shadow fiend; a 2 for sniper (his high fire range makes him out of hand sometimes); 1 for axe and tidehunter (they are tanky and initiators, in the fight they are not to be focused because they usually drop the biggest threat right away).
    Last edited by Francisco; 06-14-2012 at 06:29 AM. Reason: Duh! Not flowsheet, spreadsheet!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco View Post
    QUOTE ^^
    >Magic Resist is a great idea, I will be adding that (at work) tomorrow. (GMT+8)
    >I don't know about owning multiple sub-categories, will the tooltip become too clustered? I'll wait for other's input.
    >Adding "weakness" as a category kinda discourage newcomers though. Besides, right now there's a little too many categories.

    Unless Valve decides to tweak the graphical interface of the cards, things are set semi-in stone for now.
    Last edited by AbsoluteNoob; 06-13-2012 at 08:52 AM.

  10. #20
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    I agree with you, the analysis must be kept simple and just with the most important information in order to be helpful for new players.
    Maybe, as their dota2 skill increases, they could get a deeper analysis of the heroes, to continue developing strategies? I mean when a player understands some concepts maybe then he's ready to add more fixtures to the mixture

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