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Thread: <Player> is beyond godlike!!! Somebody kill him -> them!!

  1. #1
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    <Player> is beyond godlike!!! Somebody kill him -> them!!

    http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=42655 for reference.
    It's an inconsistency.
    Steam and Dota 2 use "them" (singular they) to refer to unknown gender.
    Example:
    "DOTA_Hero_Selection_PipTooltip_Carry_Sub" "Will become more useful later in the game if they gain a significant gold advantage."
    "Player has disconnected from the game. Please wait for them to reconnect."
    "Player has changed their name to <newname>."

    Needs to be consistent.
    This is not a matter of opinion. When all strings except one use singular they, then the one that isn't using it has to be fixed so it is uniform.
    You can discuss whether you prefer him/her/it or them in this thread: dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=42655
    Last edited by Typhox; 07-03-2012 at 09:03 PM.

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    They should just change them all to male. It is an English standard.

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    The use of them/they/their as singulars is one of my pet peeves. They're all very distinctly meant to be plural.
    While common usage is seeing an increase of singular they/them that doesn't make it correct usage. In fact, it's blatantly wrong.

    The correct solution is pretty easy. Always use singular male (very common). Always use singular female (D&D takes this approach). Always use "he or she". Actually assign each thing as gendered or genderless and use he/she/it depending. (Using 'it' exclusively is discounted as not an option)

    The hardest and best approach wouldn't be so bad. Just hardcode a gender for every hero and for any tricky ones just stick in "it". Failing at that always using he/him/his isn't bad.
    Last edited by Eskimo; 07-01-2012 at 05:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vandal View Post
    They should just change them all to male. It is an English standard.
    Nah man... this pseudo-generic use is frowned upon at least in writing and presenting. Just to give you a quick example: instead of writing, "If the student studies well, he will succeed." one is supposed to write, "If the student studies well, he or she (or: she or he) will succeed." or the like. As that's a tad unfortunate in Dota, I'd go with the suggestion in the op.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UHASCANSUR View Post
    Nah man... this pseudo-generic use is frowned upon at least in writing and presenting. Just to give you a quick example: instead of writing, "If the student studies well, he will succeed." one is supposed to write, "If the student studies well, he or she (or: she or he) will succeed." or the like. As that's a tad unfortunate in Dota, I'd go with the suggestion in the op.
    I'm not in the business of tautologies. I understand when you write a paper for your female English professor, you are usually supposed to use 'he or she'. However, that is the only time it is acceptable.

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    lol, would you prefer it to say "Please wait for they to connect?" cause that's what it sounds like you are asking for. And the current tense/gender is perfectly fine.

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    The current string in-game is this:

    "DOTA_Chat_New_KillStreak_10" "%s1 is beyond <font color='#FF8000'><b>GODLIKE</b></font>, someone kill him!!"

    As has been brought up in the other threads, the simplest fix is to simply change "him" in the string to "them". To change it would require adding a gender to each character in the code. This is probably unnecessary for a single string when using "them" as a singular third person pronoun is common usage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
    The use of them/they/their as singulars is one of my pet peeves. They're all very distinctly meant to be plural.
    While common usage is seeing an increase of singular they/them that doesn't make it correct usage. In fact, it's blatantly wrong.

    The correct solution is pretty easy. Always use singular male (very common). Always use singular female (D&D takes this approach). Always use "he or she". Actually assign each thing as gendered or genderless and use he/she/it depending. (Using 'it' exclusively is discounted as not an option)

    The hardest and best approach wouldn't be so bad. Just hardcode a gender for every hero and for any tricky ones just stick in "it". Failing at that always using he/him/his isn't bad.
    The reason D&D took the singular female pronoun approach was to discourage the notion that the game is just for men. As Dota is aso a "Boys club" type game, so I'd suggest against using default male pronouns. Also, like Typhox said in the original post, there's already a precedent for such usage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sterls View Post
    lol, would you prefer it to say "Please wait for they to connect?" cause that's what it sounds like you are asking for. And the current tense/gender is perfectly fine.
    I don't really care what gender Valve is using, but they currently say "Please wait for them to reconnect".
    I don't understand what you're trying to say...?

    @others, you may discuss it, but I hope it is out of question that they have to fix that bug? If you want a gender change, then do it for the other text strings where they're currently using "them/their/they" as well
    Last edited by Typhox; 07-02-2012 at 02:29 AM.

  9. #9
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    It is clear to me that the reconnect message is wrong, not the one you said.
    It shouldn't be "someone kill them" if its a single hero.

  10. #10
    Singular they is used in Shakespeare and various other literary works dating back to the 12th century. The rule AGAINST singular they was developed in the 19th century by prescriptivist grammarians. It's not wrong to use singular they, and despite two centuries of people trying to stomp it out, it still sounds natural and is widely used.

    Singular "they" is the correct answer and should be used instead of "him."

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