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Thread: Pentagram and Satanic in DotA

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by thyL View Post
    I do not understand, Vincitatus.
    Lucifer means "the shining one" (correct me if I'm wrong), originating from the hebrew הֵילֵל.
    The pentagram is older than christianity itself (like 3000 years older or something) and for most of the time it exists it was used as a symbol for directions, even in astronomical sense considering it stood for the 5 planets of Ishtar, or for symbolizing words like cavity. It was used in old Greece and old China and only because of us stupid Europeans it became a symbol of heresy, paganism, any cult stuff. It is our simpleminded brain and mislead education that lets the pentalpha be a sign for Satan or Evil while this assumption is not at all fact based.
    You can believe in Satan and God, that is up to you. But you can't take symbols that date way longer back than any modern religion and claim they are or belong to evil.

    What if people from Morocco or Etiopia feel offended by you claiming it is an unholy sign although they have it in their nations flaggs? It's a geometric form, nothing else. Everything that you interpret is up to you.
    I don't have anything against christianity or any other of the modern religions. In fact I grew up in a strong believing household and -what lots of people tend to forget- the modern western societies are all built on christian basics.

    That does not change, however, that in a fictional work there can be fictional characters with fictional signs, languages and abilities. The only thing that resembles Satan in the figure of Doombringer is the name. And I fail to see how people could actually be offended by something that is older than their religion and that actually comes from a fricking star.

    Sorry for my not-understanding, but I really fail to see any valid point OP has.
    I explained this very throughly out in my first post. Sigh.

  2. #122
    Basic Member thyL's Avatar
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    I'm not talking to you.

    Edit: Just to clear this up: You did not counter my arguments or explain regarding my matter in your first post. All you posted is a lame excuse that cos your father is fragging racist you're confused about how to use certain words in a certain context.
    Last edited by thyL; 07-06-2012 at 01:10 PM.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Andrei View Post
    I know you are trying to be the good guy ,and i generally would agree.But when the guy is just ignoring every argument for 12 pages of posts I kinda understand how Darklite felt.Also we are massively trolling this dense guy because any form of arguments ore subtleties just pass though him.
    +Remember any religious reference in the lore is proportional to the person's willingness to find one.
    How am I ignoring any of your arguments?

    Darklite didn't even offer any argument, just like the person who you quoted explained.

    Quote Originally Posted by thyL View Post
    I'm not talking to you.
    Doesn't really matter who you were talking to in this case since my first post countered your argument to the fullest. To say that you weren't talking to me shows great disrespect to my whole thread and the effort wich I put into explaining it. But I guess I shouldn't have really excepted from you any more or less.
    Last edited by Kaiverrettu; 07-06-2012 at 01:10 PM.

  4. #124
    Basic Member DarkLite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincitatus View Post
    Ok, I have had enough. Stop it with that. This is not an argument. Not everybody with those issues would necessarily have found this particular thread, and the way that everybody strongly alienated the OP for the (what is it now? 108 replies so far?), is not going to actually encourage people to agree with him. Frankly, seeing all the "ignorant, stupid personal issue" comments, did not encourage me to actually put my voice in on this, and that is not conducive to a normal, social discussion.

    And the point is, he's right, there ARE going to be christians playing this, and some of them are not going to be thrilled with the Lucifer references. You may not have any personal issues with it, but some people will. And some of them will be those who like fantasy books, dungeons and dragons, zelda, or any other game.
    And what, exactly does it change that Doom Bringer is a random demon lord, or Lucifer? As far as the game goes, it changes nothing. So I actually think that maybe we are better off developing a new, more unique background for him, rather than one that fuels debates.
    It's not a case of "this particular thread", nor "108 replies". He's made a grand total of...
    • Two threads here on pentagrams and Satanic: one (22 replies), two (this thread, 119+ replies).
    • Two threads on Satanic on playdota: one (59 replies), two (334 replies).
    • Two threads about Valve's hypocrisy (including accusations of IceFrog being Muslim because he's "anti-Christian"): one (39 replies), two (75 replies).
    • One thread claiming that Ogre Magi is promoting obesity (82 replies).
    • And one thread complaining about Doom's name being Lucifer (425 replies). This was the first one. Note the part where he claims that "some kids might think it's cool to support Satan and turn evil becouse of this".


    Up till now, I haven't seen anyone agree with him. People have tried everything. Reasoned argument, comparisons, discussion, flaming, trolling, analogies...and you know what? More than one thousand replies later, he's still posting exactly the same things. People who try to reason with him have got nowhere (assuming he even responds to them at all).

    We have two people saying this is an issue. One of whom also claims that Ogre Magi promotes obesity, that calling Doom Lucifer will result in kids becoming evil serial killer Satan worshippers to be cool, and that atheists are evil, irrational, anti-science monsters full of blind beliefs with a hateful philosophy, who's been banned from playdota.com and tempbanned from here (after he called mods "atheist tyrants" and went on about "dickless actions", "bullshitiness of the company", "crimes comitted against me and humanity", and "dumbass people" in a PM to the mod that closed his previous thread).

    The other is you.

    Everyone else has tried reason and logic, and come to the inevitable conclusion that he's got to be trolling. The truth is that virtually nobody is bothered by the name of an item, the particle effect on a spell or the lore name of a hero. Even among Christians, the vast majority comprehend that it's just a video game and deal with it.
    Last edited by DarkLite; 07-06-2012 at 01:18 PM. Reason: fixed typos

  5. #125
    Core Tester Chairraider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1337_n00b View Post
    They do; there's just a tiny little misunderstanding among their ranks that prevents anyone but the main moderators from doing something to the OP and his thread. It was advised that we stay put and let it decompose till they arrive.
    Not really, I only had an extended dinner and wasn't here to watch over the thread like I said I would

    And the thread went exactly as expected. Kaiverrettu made his point, it's clearly visible for everybody and will stay that way. But quoting Fydorian:
    it's pages and pages of "You're the only one offended" and back-and-forths about religion. There's no real debate about the game or anything going on that I can see.
    As announced, the thread thus gets closed and will not be reopened in any shape or form.

  6. #126
    Basic Member Vincitatus's Avatar
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    A slight apology and clarfication

    Ok, I did not know most of what Darklite said. Yes, all those threads definitely seem to be encouraging pointless debates and flaming. I do not agree at all that Doombringer being Satan will motivate people to become Satanic, or any of this (Ogre magi promotes obesity? really?...) . And I don't care about the pentagram, as Thyl said very well, it is just a symbol that has just been recently associated with Devil cults.

    There's actually, a single point that I somewhat agreed with: DoomBringer is called Lucifer and his lore is a direct reference to Milton's work. Reading it, he is strongly implied to be the Devil of christianity. And this actually might be somewhat detrimental to Dota2.
    In a world where millions of people play video games, and we've already had a much too great amount of fundamentalists shouting that games are corrupting today's youth, having a popular game where you can PLAY AS the Devil, in today's world, is adding fuel to the fire.
    I ignore them, as you all probably do too, but I really do not want Dota2 to be an easy target of this sort of rubbish. When the game is released, I have a hard time imagining this NOT to be a source of "scandal" at some point.
    Hopefully I'm wrong

    Also, thank you for being understanding
    Everyone has a story.

    For a list of all fan lores of unreleased heroes, http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=37955.

  7. #127
    Basic Member 1337_n00b's Avatar
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    Uh...
    There is a reason why that thread would get closed.


    So that this topic would not rise again.

    No, really, you didn't even make yourself look like an ass there or anything like it, your point was considerably valid, and... Don't overreact like that, please, it's an equivalent of throwing a rock into a temporarily deactivated nuclear piss bomb.


    And this, all in all, does not belong here, in the Lore subsection; or the dev forums themselves for that matter.
    Heroes this user should seriously reconsider ever picking again.

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    Visit the Dota 2 Lore Megathread. Renovation ongoing.

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