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Thread: [Fixed] Clockwerk Cogs AoE much bigger in dota2 than dota1

  1. #1
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    [Fixed] Clockwerk Cogs AoE much bigger in dota2 than dota1

    So to stop derailing the other thread, let's make a new thread. Could be an intended change, even though I don't believe there is something intended there and more like a mistake.

    This is the situation in dota1, you run into cogs, only the closest cogs pushes you back, then you can melee it(hell you can even melee clockwerk if he's on the edge).


    In dota2 instead, every adjacent cog will also push you. So you run in, middle cog pushes you, then run back in and top right or bot right cog pushes you, run in again and the last cog pushes you. No way to melee the cogs before they disapear pretty much. This creates issues when running out of cogs as you cannot avoid the push in any way that I found. In fact, I've been pushed by a cog that wasn't even adjacent when I was testing around. Say the cogs are # 123456789 like a digipad, 5 obviously no cog since it's the center. You break cog#2(top), try to run out, and cog #4(middle left) pushes you out, somehow. It's not even close to where you are but still reaches you sometimes.

    What I suspect is cogs in dota2 have pbae effects all around them with an invisible antipushing buff when standing in the middle, so as soon as you leave that, you get pushed by a cog chosen randomly. In dota1, it seems to be directed line AEs coming out of the cog away from the middle, so you never get pushed unless you run in front of a particular cog(line probably a bit wide to offer some more coverage).

  2. #2
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    Cogs are broken yet clockwerk isn't used very much at a high level and when he is used, he is used for the flare more than anything. Probably should be left as is until a nerf is actually needed.

  3. #3
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    Could be a subtle buff, I really don't mind.

  4. #4
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    I have been unable to reproduce this. As long as I ran directly out or at the cogs, I got pushed only by the middle cog. If you destroy a cog from the outside, your unit will immediately start to move towards clockwerk. Many times this will not be a completely straight path between the active cogs. If clockwerk destroys a cog and you attempt to run out after him, you do not necessarily have aggo on him. In this case, I have been able to run out unpushed a few times. This is all in Dota 2.

  5. #5
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    Interesting, I haven't managed to run out of the cogs without getting pushed, doesn't matter which one I break. I did manage to kill a cog from outside without being pushed back by adjacent cogs, but that's only cause the melee range is longer than the push distance(interesting btw, you can melee an active cog from out of its melee range which you can't do in dota1). If you try to hug the cog like in the screenshot, you get pushed back by both the adjacent cogs before you can get there.

  6. #6
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    i'll add this to the sticky as discrepancy. keep adding new information though.
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  7. #7
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    Have only experienced this with corner cogs in Dota2, which to my knowledge is consistent with DotA.

    Keep in mind that area of effect of the push is independent of collision size of the cog, and, more importantly (in DotA mechanics), pathing map of the cogs. Pathing maps are special collision boxes in WC3 used for buildings which gives them square collision, rather than normal unit collision which is circular.

    There's a whole lot of technical stuff that makes certain things in WC3 work the way they do, but basically it comes down to this:

    Attacks extend from the edge of the attacker's collision radius (I.E. attacker's collision extends range) to the edge of the collision box of the target (I.E. target's collision also extends range) - thus, cogs can be attacked from full melee range away without colliding with the cog, with respect to the cog's collision size.

    Scripted range checks (unless using a range check with some kind of collision detection system on top of it, which I'm 99% sure DotA doesn't use) only check the distance between two sets of coordinates (or, less efficiently, two locations) - thus, the range checked is independent of collision for both target and source.

    Power Cogs have a 210 area of effect and I'm unsure of the collision size of them. (Most?) melee heroes have 128 attack range, meaning cogs' shock range is 82 higher than a melee attack, minus the collision of the hero (~32 is a safe bet, since that's the default size of a hero in WC3, but it's modifiable so it could be anything in DotA). Now, here's the important part: pathing maps work the same way as collision. Which means the 50 or so range that's left after the hero's collision + attack range depends on WHERE you attack the cog from, since it's a box rather than a circle. If you attack from the corner, you're considerably further from the center, while if you attack from the center of one side you're as close as you can get.

    Now, if there is a bug with power cogs, it may in fact end up being a global inconsistency with ranges in Dota2 being calculated from points where they weren't in DotA. I certainly wouldn't know any of the stuff I just wrote if I hadn't exhaustively tested things in the World Editor while making maps in WC3 - it's possible even IceFrog isn't aware of it. If all abilities in Dota2 are calculated from the edge of a unit's collision rather than abilities that weren't hardcoded in WC3 being calculated from the center, that's an additional ~64 range these abilities have that they didn't before, which would definitely be enough to make cogs knock you back in places where they didn't in DotA.

    To prove/disprove this would take some exhaustive testing though.

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