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Thread: [Needs Testing] Templar Assassin is Overpowered in Dota 2

  1. #11
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    it's rice from dotalicious, hey mate.

    ot:
    discussion intended changes is ok, especially when they are new, since there might be unforseen repercussions.
    in this case, i think the community has cut its own flesh by "buffing" tas refraction animation on the testclient with demanding the animation to be more subtle to enemies.

    imho the changes to the refraction mechanic make sense and should be addressed with a small nerf by giving her the test client animation back. (this should fix 2. and 3.)

    the interaction addressed in 1. will be changed in the next patch.

    could somebody please list all disables, that disabled meld in wc3 dota and list their dota 2 behaviour (cancels/doesnt cancel) along with them.
    Last edited by blash365; 07-18-2012 at 02:50 AM.
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  2. #12
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    Meld wasn't cancelled by stuns on Dota 1. Only if ES hit her right, but none of the other stuns (and Tiny's spells), made her visible, same goes for Kunkkas torrent.
    Last edited by diamant; 07-18-2012 at 02:36 AM.

  3. #13
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    False report

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rice View Post
    TA NEEDS to be consistent with her DotA 1 counterpart. With a skill like refraction, set at pricisely 5 instances, it is highly balance skewering to change that.

    These following issues MUST be adressed. Playing against/using Lanya currently is rediculously unfair.

    1) Refraction NEEDS to be a triggered heal (or have the game recognize some sort of damage taken). This is crucial for skills such as cold snap (doesnt do anything to her) and the ability to use blink dagger even when attacked.

    Description of blink dagger:[I]Teleport to a target point up to 1200 units away. If damage is taken from an enemy hero, Blink Dagger cannot be used for 3 seconds.[/I] Since TA's refraction COMPLETELY blocks damage taken, why should blink dagger be disabled? Had the ability description of blink dagger be "If the user is attacked by an enemy hero", then and only then, would your case be valid.

    2) The CASTING animation for refraction needs to be shown to enemies (not the actual field), just like in dota 1

    Refraction already shows a mild pinkish aura around her when the protection is up and when the damage-increasing ability is still active, her hands glow even brighter and have a larger area. surely this is idiot-proof enough for even new players by telling them "stay away, I'm badass for now". besides, the casting animation for TA in dota was the same as her attack animation. pros and high-tier players all have the ability to manipulate animation changes, therefore good TA players could enable refraction without being detected.

    3) The refraction buff tooltip MUST be shown to enemies (but code it without showing how many instances left) like in dota 1

    For this I have nothing, because this is the only point in your argument that I agree with.

    The last thing is (although I know this wont be changed, just to point out WHY these nerf/consistencies are needed) that a lot of skills in dota 2 have their instances of damage combined (such as gondar's ww used to be 2, liches frost nova on first target used to be 2.. etc)
    Why even bother bringing it up if you know it won't be changed? The shoddy and last-decade programming of the wc3 engine greatly limited Icefrog's intended usage and executions of spells. in dota, critical strikes were calculated with this formula:
    [regular attack damage] + [critical damage - regular attack damage] = [critical damage]
    as of now, dota2, regular hits are regular hits and critcal is just a huge chunk of damage by itself, no formulas.
    The new engine allows greater room for balancing and improvement, if you have anything against it I suggest you return to dota.

    Also, meld needs to be cancelled by es's fissure, lion's inpale, sand kings burrowstrike, as well as the upcoming nyx assassin's stun since those skills displaced you.

    Regarding Meld,
    Meld is an special instance of windwalk, that being said, displacement inducing spells will NOT break Meld. The only reason why ES's fissure in dota broke Meld was because of the width of fissure occupying the space TA was on, making her MOVE a few units to the sides. Because of the coding for Meld in wc3, which states that Meld is an instance of windwalk but will break on MOVEMENT of TA, Meld will break. therefore contrary to popular belief, stuns DO NOT break Meld because windwalks dont break on stun.

    I believe in dota2 there is a proper category for spells which induce movement and displacement. examples of movement inducing spells are probably spells like Axe's Berserker Call and displacement inducing spells are generally every other spell that stuns.


    Unconfirmed for torrent and toss
    Now that I've given my two cents on everything in your post,
    you keep emphasizing on the words "MUST" and "NEED". do you really know the weight of such words? has the full community spoken and asked you to be their messenger to call for changes? An opinion is an opinion and a need is a need. because of the words you used in this post, it just feels like a whine and rant post of somebody who lost a chain of matches against TAs and decided to complain about the "overpowered-ness" of a perfectly decent hero.

  5. #15
    Basic Member Rice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diamant View Post
    Meld wasn't cancelled by stuns on Dota 1. Only if ES hit her right, but none of the other stuns (and Tiny's spells), made her visible, same goes for Kunkkas torrent.
    Actually the way the spell was coded was that any movement/displacement would cancel her meld.

    That meant the air-time for impale spells would remove it as well as the small movement caused by the impassable fissure.


    I also know my mechanics very well, so I already knew it was based on windwalk. There's a reason why IceFrog made it based on being displaced, and not when a move command is triggered by a player.

    As for blink dagger... your argument is invalid because it is flawed. Your argument is that "it makes sense" when it skewers balancing greatly.


    I'm a decent player, I can gaurentee you that. I'm not crying like some noob when I say something is imbalanced. It's due to porting isues. I've had my fair shar of top live games as well as being in the highest skill tier on DLG when I still played dota 1. As for chain losing? naw, didn't happen. I use words like NEED and MUST because it is a need and a must. These are not small changes to the game (such as void backtrack working when he has full hp), they are changes that, if applied to any other hero, would have your frustration as well. Let's make rupture not have a visual effect, or remove the casting visual effect on epicentre. If I told you that, you would definately say "NO, those are NEEDED in order for the hero to remain balanced."
    Last edited by Rice; 07-18-2012 at 08:06 AM.

  6. #16
    Basic Member chukky-jr's Avatar
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    lol at the needs testing tags

    as for OP he has valid reasons, he can't propose this idea in PD anyway since this is about hero of DOTA 2, not DotA

    1. cold snap doesn't trigger on refraction? wtf should be fixed, i don't remember it has to check for amount of damage rather than damage instance
    2. casting animation - i agree
    3. for buff, well not really care at all

    about the air time impale, WC3 code only checks the x and y, so it doesn't get dispelled by any air time, i tested it just now
    Last edited by chukky-jr; 07-18-2012 at 08:12 AM.
    Testing bugs between DOTA 2 and DotA - No Test Client
    Common Gameplay Bugs list
    Intended Gameplay Fix list
    Times quoted: OVER NINE THOUSAND

    Quote Originally Posted by GothicCream View Post
    Almost of every pokemon game that have online match. 75% of player are using full legendary pokemon team with all of them being sent out from master ball. And they got pawn by Magikarp.

  7. #17
    Basic Member Rice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chukky-jr View Post
    lol at the needs testing tags

    as for OP he has valid reasons, he can't propose this idea in PD anyway since this is about hero of DOTA 2, not DotA

    1. cold snap doesn't trigger on refraction? wtf should be fixed, i don't remember it has to check for amount of damage rather than damage instance
    2. casting animation - i agree
    3. for buff, well not really care at all

    about the air time impale, WC3 code only checks the x and y, so it doesn't get dispelled by any air time, i tested it just now
    Alright, my bad. Must've been thinking of fissure.

  8. #18
    Basic Member chukky-jr's Avatar
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    no Rice, checking XYZ axis is indeed valid point for Meld, i state the issues for that in next sentence

    but as for disables that should work for meld, anything that moves her along the x and y axis (even Sprout lol), not sure if icefrog wants to check z axis checked too since i believe z axis checking has issues with terrain deformation in WC3 maps that would cause desync.

    just to remind, GetUnitZ() might cause desync, i'm kind of newb about that but afaik another way to check unit's Z axis is GetUnitFlyHeight(), but so far IF hasn't used that one for Meld (iirc)

    @below, are you sure you're quoting the right post, lol
    Last edited by chukky-jr; 07-18-2012 at 08:20 AM.
    Testing bugs between DOTA 2 and DotA - No Test Client
    Common Gameplay Bugs list
    Intended Gameplay Fix list
    Times quoted: OVER NINE THOUSAND

    Quote Originally Posted by GothicCream View Post
    Almost of every pokemon game that have online match. 75% of player are using full legendary pokemon team with all of them being sent out from master ball. And they got pawn by Magikarp.

  9. #19
    Basic Member Rice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chukky-jr View Post
    lol at the needs testing tags

    as for OP he has valid reasons, he can't propose this idea in PD anyway since this is about hero of DOTA 2, not DotA

    1. cold snap doesn't trigger on refraction? wtf should be fixed, i don't remember it has to check for amount of damage rather than damage instance
    2. casting animation - i agree
    3. for buff, well not really care at all

    about the air time impale, WC3 code only checks the x and y, so it doesn't get dispelled by any air time, i tested it just now
    Also yeah, I'm not sure why this needs testing. It's straightforward as to what the issues are.

    Quote Originally Posted by psyno View Post
    False report
    LOL. Can you leave my thread. Out of your 16 posts, they've been either false 1 sentence claims or have been Racism towards russians.
    Last edited by Rice; 07-18-2012 at 08:19 AM.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by chukky-jr View Post
    1. cold snap doesn't trigger on refraction? wtf should be fixed, i don't remember it has to check for amount of damage rather than damage instance
    With cold snap the stun only triggers on damage greater than 10 after reductions. Since she takes 0 damage cold snap cannot take its effect.

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