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Thread: A heads up for this week's update

  1. #1
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    A heads up for this week's update

    There was a lot of work done retuning how bots calculate the desires for all their modes in the update that's coming out this week. The upside is that it allows them to make better, more fine-grained decisions about what they want to be doing, but the downside is that it's likely that some of their behavior tuning is going to temporarily be worse than it was before. We've done a bunch of work on this tuning after making the change (and will be continuing to do so), and I think it's pretty good, but I'm sure there are plenty of issues that still exist.

    So, after this week's update's been released, please let me know if you see bots doing anything particularly dumb with respect to their modes -- basically if they're pushing when they shouldn't, defending when they shouldn't, not attacking when they should, doing Rosh at odd or inappropriate times, retreating unnecessarily, etc. Not really micro-level stuff, more their high-level decision-making.

    And of course feel free to let me know if they're doing anything better than they were before too.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    ROGER THAT CHRIS.!!!!!!

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  4. #4
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    Hi Chris,

    Want to preface by saying that your continuing work on the bots is of course greatly appreciated.

    In my first game since the patch on Test, running Nyx Assassin + 4 bots against 5 bots (Hard bot level), there's already some extremely wonky behaviour going on with respect to Rosh, perhaps even wonkier than what was happening before. The following things are what I view as issues:

    1) Both bot teams decided to go for Rosh extremely early compared to when a human team would go for him. 10 minute Rosh with teams not especially well configured to handle early Rosh seems a little foolhardy.
    2) Both teams made essentially symmetrical calculations to do Rosh and thus ended up with both sets of bots there at the exact same time. This is a little weird too. I understand that both bot arrangements are basically making the same calculation relative to their strength vs. Rosh's strength and thus it's not necessarily SURPRISING that they would both decide to go for it, but it's still rather weird. It seems to me that the main missing calculation is one of "will the enemy team know/punish us for attempting Rosh" as Rosh was fully warded so both teams could see each other going in for it. In a human game, teams attempt to grab Rosh if and only if the enemy team is somehow incapacitated or unaware- not just "anytime our team can theoretically overwhelm Rosh."
    3) Each team lost at least 1 and maybe 2 bot players to dying to Rosh. This is quite a bad outcome although perhaps a step in the right direction from when bots would immediately run out of the pit as soon as they took 1 hit from Rosh. It seems bots are underestimating the damage/stuns Rosh puts out and thus losing people to him. 2 player deaths in exchange for a Rosh kill isn't a deal most human teams would go for.

    Just wanted to get an early report in since you asked for reports in the thread, I'll of course be trying to repro and do more bot games to see more behaviour. Cheers.

  5. #5
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    Playing as a couple characters against hard bots I have run into a few issues with my team's bots deciding when to transition. Rosh seems to be too high of a priority for bots so they regularly seem to get stuck in the old doing rosh/running away loop. Friendly bots also seem to want to ignore defending towers in other lanes, at least early in the game. Just had the enemy team group as 5 at about the 10 minute mark and push down all 3 mid towers without my bots ever leaving their lane or even pushing their tower.

  6. #6
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    OK just played three quick game (about 10minutes) in the test client in order to try out the new characters.

    Bots are very, very, veryyyyyy broken. First game they tried to do Roshan at level 2. Died and went back trying again... (only bots on my side, not the foes)

    second and third game I was laughing so hard because, as soon as they spawned after their regular warding and stuff, they went for Roshan level 1, all died and went back for Roshan again, and again, and again. My screen was flooded by "vengeful got killed by a neutral" "Razor has been slain by a neutral" ans so on. Was so funny. But I doubt a new player (who is likely to go in this game mode for training out some heros,) will understand what's going on being alone versus the five bots xD.

  7. #7
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    Yeah Roshan AI is completely broken.
    Was playing a game today with 3 friends, and from level 5 onward Razor bot would constantly try to solo Roshan, putting him at level 9 by the time the game ended about 35 or 40 minutes in.
    Seeing as the way they calculate their desire has been changed, I get the feeling they either calculate that the enemy will -never- interrupt them (hence it's always a good time to kill Roshan) or that Roshan is really easy to kill or something, like they disregard his damage.

  8. #8
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    Just pushed a Test update with some quick adjustments. Still working mostly on hero bugs, but feedback is definitely appreciated and we'll be addressing the bot issues as quickly as we can.

  9. #9
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    The bots in my game went rosh after 11 minutes now, after update 3. Level 7 razor, level 6 kunkka, level 6 crystal maiden, level 8 tiny.
    I was level 11 keeper of the light with boots and midas. Difficulty Unfair. Cheats no.

    The only hero with more then boots, was razor who had a vanguard.

    Image with -dumpbots if it helps. http://i.imgur.com/Wksz6.jpg
    Last edited by hjort; 07-26-2012 at 10:10 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjort View Post
    The bots in my game went rosh after 11 minutes now, after update 3. Level 7 razor, level 6 kunkka, level 6 crystal maiden, level 8 tiny.
    I was level 11 keeper of the light with boots and midas. Difficulty Unfair. Cheats no.

    The only hero with more then boots, was razor who had a vanguard.

    Image with -dumpbots if it helps. http://i.imgur.com/Wksz6.jpg
    Rofl, happened to me once at last week. But it was with Lina @40+ minutes of game.
    She kept saving money for nothing (she had 2.2k+ and still didn't bought anything besides the damm boots of speed during the entire game).

    @Chris:
    Do you guys plan to allow us to control bots by commands like:
    -help (near bots will assist you)
    -def top|mid|bot
    -push top|mid|bot
    -b(or -retreat) top|mid|bot

    In cases where we have top|mid|bot, setting none of these options will apply it to the current lane of the player.

    Or even by easier/quicker methods like that voice orders from L4D when we press Z / X ?

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