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Thread: [Irrelevant since 6.82] Soulcatcher & non-lethal damage

  1. #1
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    [Irrelevant since 6.82] Soulcatcher & non-lethal damage

    Summary:
    Couple of minutes ago in MatchID 28296532 31:40 replay time, Rubick stole Venomancer's ultimate and killed Veno himself with it even though it shouldn't be lethal.

    Repro Steps:
    1. Steal Veno ult with Rubick
    2. Cast it
    3. Let low hp hero die to it

    Result:
    Veno ult does lethal damage even though it shouldn't.

    Expected Result:
    It shouldn't be lethal but leave the hero at 1hp or something like normal Veno ult.

  2. #2
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    What kills you is the dmg from SD Soul Catcher. It's a separate instance of dmg that is lethal, and since Venom's ult ticks you down to 1hp the Soul Catcher kills you. This however is a bug as in dota1, it doesn't seem to work that way. I'm unsure exactl what are the mechanics behind this , maybe in dota2 there is a special non lethal flag but the dmg is still done entirely so soul catcher does dmg even on a tick at 1hp while in dota1 it doesn't.

  3. #3
    Basic Member TheWilder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyros View Post
    What kills you is the dmg from SD Soul Catcher..
    Ninja'd me hard there...
    Last edited by TheWilder; 07-25-2012 at 01:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by vladhood View Post
    boy im glad all these qualified and educated game designers have come to the forums to help dota 2 grow

  4. #4
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    ah ok... maybe some mod can change the title to something like "in combination with soul catcher" or something

  5. #5
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    added to sticky.
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  6. #6
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    Likely it has to do with order of damage calculations. What I am thinking here is that soul catcher damage is done after poison nova in dota 2 and is done before poison nova on dota 1, either way not sure here and don't want to research it further for the moment if it hasn't been solve I will come up with an answer later, but likely someone like Shinjo will know exactly what the problem is as soon as he reads it.

    tl;dr test with other skills such as penitance and other "amplifications".

  7. #7
    Volunteer Moderator DLRevan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamanics View Post
    Likely it has to do with order of damage calculations. What I am thinking here is that soul catcher damage is done after poison nova in dota 2 and is done before poison nova on dota 1, either way not sure here and don't want to research it further for the moment if it hasn't been solve I will come up with an answer later, but likely someone like Shinjo will know exactly what the problem is as soon as he reads it.

    tl;dr test with other skills such as penitance and other "amplifications".
    Im not LordShinjo, but the trigger runs before the main damage, that should be why its non-lethal in Dota 1, I think.

    Edit: On the other hand, even if the amplification damage is high enough to kill the target, the source of the main damage is still credited....so I guess I don't really understand Catcher. Might be something to do with Phoenix Fire's DoT damage hardcoded non-lethality then.

    E2: Or actually, it doesn't really matter. It doesn't kill in Dota 1 (other dmg amps like penitence as well), so it shouldn't in Dota 2.
    Last edited by DLRevan; 07-25-2012 at 03:10 PM.
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  8. #8
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    Yeah probably simpler issue is the order since in the combat log SD soul catcher pops after the poison nova. I was thinking that maybe what happened is soul catcher dmg was based of the complete tick of poison nova instead of the modified value after non lethal reduction but good chances it's just the order.

  9. #9
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    If it happens with other amplifications title should be changed and a note added that it is the order of damage calculations that is wrong.

  10. #10
    Basic Member Kryil-'s Avatar
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    I just tested some stuff because of http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=85354
    Actually, I managed to suicide with Slarks Dark Pact AND Centaurs Double Edge in Dota 1, only Venoms Ultimate didn't kill the target.
    Unless the test map is bugged here (I don't know how to create such a test in the real one (alone)), this isn't true for all self-damaging skills.
    EDIT: Bane and Pudge suicided too.
    Last edited by Kryil-; 05-03-2013 at 12:40 AM.
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