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Thread: (Discussion) New orb effect thread

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWb View Post
    Wait, Poison sting is a buff placer, so is OoV, how will they stack? O_o*

    Also, from what I understand mael/mj doesn't interact with other orbs, but overrides anything (orbs/buffs/bashes) when it procs?
    Sting is buff placer, OoV is now an orb. DotA2 engine allows more than 1 buff per attack, meaning you can now Sting, Skadi, Lifesteal, Crit, Bash in the same attack.

    And no on Mael/Mjol, it only override the orb. You can find similar interaction by using Weaver's Germinate + Crit, you can crit AND fire the extra hit.
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    Currently observed Orb(Unique Attack Modifiers), Critical, and Bash interactions for DotA2

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  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Chazin View Post
    I dont understand all this calculating and trying out. Dota is very special because of its unique orb effect style regardless if it was because Warcraft III limited it or because icefrog wanted it to be that way. If dota 2 would change the orb effect system to this new style where u can have like 3 effects and weavers geminate attack would still trigger I personally would stop playing and go back to dota 1 immediatly. I know some of u may argue that nothing of value was lost etc bla bla.. Valve and Icefrog both wanted the metagame to stay nearly the same in Dota and Dota 2. Changing the orb effects would break tons of balance and change the game more then many of u might think.

    So after all im strongly thinking that the current state of orb stacking is just a bug that is gonna be fixed later. Until then i go rape with my op Milj-Magina

    regards Chazin
    They could always like make the game more consistent/understandable and tweak the balance afterwards.

  3. #13
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    By the way, do orbs stack with quelling blade now?

  4. #14
    Basic Member SlyGoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWb View Post
    By the way, do orbs stack with quelling blade now?
    Everything stacks with Quelling Blade AFAIK. Kunkka can use it, too.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Mech View Post
    Any orb effect that used the "spell orb" item ability in Dota1 is only an orb when it procced. In Dota1, for Mjol/Mael, when it procced it, would cast a chain lightning ability. For Geminate, it procced a dummy ability that didn't do anything except trigger scripts that did something, which wasn't an actual second attack, it just did damage based on your current attack damage. This is the reason why it doesn't proc any orbs or crits or bash or be evaded.

    For Drow using Frost arrows never proccing Mjol/Mael is because orb abilities with autocast function had the highest piority. This makes it so that Mjol/Mael never had a chance to proc.

    The reason Skadi is exceptions to things is because of War3. I'm under the assumption Blizzard coded the Ice orb ability wrong and never went back to fix it.

    Crit and Bash abilities are not orbs. Crit, bash, and evasion were all one ability in War3. You just set the values to be different things. If you didn't want something to stun, you set the duration in the ability to 0. If you didn't want evasion, you set the evasion chance to 0. The one ability had one proc chance, so you couldn't in the same ability make it crit with one percentage, and bash with another percentage. At a certain point in time they decided that having different crit abilities proccing at the same time was overpowered. For example, Skeleton King, with a Daedalus (Burriza in War3 Dota). When Skeleton King crit for 275% damage at the same time as Burriza crit for 250% damage, they would multiply together for a total of 697.5% damage. It was even dumber with say Phantom Assassin with multiple Burriza's, hitting for up to 2500% damage, with just two Burriza's. This was changed. So crit abilities can still crit independently of each other. Adding more crit abilities just means you have a higher chance to critical strike. Two Daedalus means 50% chance to crit. Bash effects used to have no cooldown and could stack. Faceless void with a Skullbasher basically had a high chance of stunlocking you forever. That was changed, a cooldown was added to bash abilities, and they were flagged to not stack with each other.

    For heroes that have no orb abilities, the piority of the orb depended on the order of your items. This is mainly true for orbs that didn't use the "spell orb" item ability, and Skadi, because of the aforementioned coding mishap. So if you really wanted you could have Desolator and Diffusal. Once you attack once with Desolator to apply the debuff, you switched Diffusal to first slot in your inventory to proc the mana burn until the Desolator debuff wore off. In practice this generally wasn't practical.
    Almost everything in this post is incorrect -

    Orbs are always orbs - if you have mjol/mael, you won't ever burn mana.

    Geminate attack is Orb of Slow with searing arrows with 0 damage as the spell that procs - in addition crit and bash with override geminate attack, you can manaburn on the bonus shot and lots of other silly rules (check http://www.playdota.com/mechanics/Orb_Effects).

    Skadi is not based on orb of slow, but frost breath (range) and orb of frost (melee), hence why it acts differently.

    Crit and evasion can be given together in one ability, but bash is a separate ability. A stun duration of 0 means the stun never wears off. I don't ever recall crits stacking, but I could be wrong. In addition, crits can proc at the same time, but the acquired last will override.

    Bash abilities do not have a cooldown (basher does). They weren't flagged to not stack, but rather you won't be given the 100% chance to bash ability (or it will be given then removed) if you are void, melee troll, slardar or barathrum or bashed in the last 2 seconds.

    Slot order does not effect the priority for most orbs. Check http://www.playdota.com/mechanics/Orb_Effects for the rules. In particular your example with diffusal and deso is complete nonsense - you will always place corruption.

  6. #16
    Basic Member Kraju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mech View Post
    ...
    For Drow using Frost arrows never proccing Mjol/Mael is because orb abilities with autocast function had the highest piority. This makes it so that Mjol/Mael never had a chance to proc.
    ...
    I would like to inform that Mjol/Mael works on Drow for SURE (when her spell is autoatack ON) - i played today so belive me, i know what im writing. (ofcourse i woned hard )

    greetings
    Last edited by Kraju; 12-16-2011 at 09:27 PM. Reason: i lost some words - thinking faster than writing so sense was completly difrent

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraju View Post
    I would like to inform that Mjol/Mael works on Drow for SURE (when her spell is autoatack ON) - i played today so belive me, i know what im writing. (ofcourse i woned hard )

    greetings
    If you would've read the thread (which helps most of the time, believe me) you would've seen that the post you quote refers to dota1 while you on the other hand refer to dota2. Do you see the problem?

  8. #18
    Basic Member Tatcoolx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mech View Post
    Any orb effect that used the "spell orb" item ability in Dota1 is only an orb when it procced. In Dota1, for Mjol/Mael, when it procced it, would cast a chain lightning ability.
    Only true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mech View Post
    For Geminate, it procced a dummy ability that didn't do anything except trigger scripts that did something, which wasn't an actual second attack, it just did damage based on your current attack damage. This is the reason why it doesn't proc any orbs or crits or bash or be evaded.

    For Drow using Frost arrows never proccing Mjol/Mael is because orb abilities with autocast function had the highest piority. This makes it so that Mjol/Mael never had a chance to proc.

    The reason Skadi is exceptions to things is because of War3. I'm under the assumption Blizzard coded the Ice orb ability wrong and never went back to fix it.

    Crit and Bash abilities are not orbs. Crit, bash, and evasion were all one ability in War3. You just set the values to be different things. If you didn't want something to stun, you set the duration in the ability to 0. If you didn't want evasion, you set the evasion chance to 0. The one ability had one proc chance, so you couldn't in the same ability make it crit with one percentage, and bash with another percentage. At a certain point in time they decided that having different crit abilities proccing at the same time was overpowered. For example, Skeleton King, with a Daedalus (Burriza in War3 Dota). When Skeleton King crit for 275% damage at the same time as Burriza crit for 250% damage, they would multiply together for a total of 697.5% damage. It was even dumber with say Phantom Assassin with multiple Burriza's, hitting for up to 2500% damage, with just two Burriza's. This was changed. So crit abilities can still crit independently of each other. Adding more crit abilities just means you have a higher chance to critical strike. Two Daedalus means 50% chance to crit. Bash effects used to have no cooldown and could stack. Faceless void with a Skullbasher basically had a high chance of stunlocking you forever. That was changed, a cooldown was added to bash abilities, and they were flagged to not stack with each other.

    For heroes that have no orb abilities, the piority of the orb depended on the order of your items. This is mainly true for orbs that didn't use the "spell orb" item ability, and Skadi, because of the aforementioned coding mishap. So if you really wanted you could have Desolator and Diffusal. Once you attack once with Desolator to apply the debuff, you switched Diffusal to first slot in your inventory to proc the mana burn until the Desolator debuff wore off. In practice this generally wasn't practical.
    Totaly wrong. Basically it's just your guesses.
    0. Geminate Attack is "skill orb" that has a 100% chance to cast a "fire arrow"(autocast skill, like bone fletcher has) with 0 bonus dmg and certain cooldown.
    1. There are 2 passive skills in WC3 which grants "frost attack": 1 orb effect skill and 1 buff placer skill.
    2. If set duration of stun to 0 it will last endlessly.
    3. Two Deadalus dosnt' means 50%, stupid schoolboy. 25%+25%=31.25%
    4. Void's bash is just trigger that pauses enemy and deals damage. So, before "Basher Restriction" if void's attack procs stun and bash from "Cranium Basher" the target will recieve both damage(from time lock and bash) and will be stuned for 1.3 sec and paused for 1 sec, what means after 1 sec of pause the 1.3 sec of stun(from bash) will last after pause, it means about 2.3 seconds of disable. That is why Icefrog created "Basher Restriction" for certain units.
    5. "cooldown was added to bash abilities" - I like your naivety.
    6. "Desol and Diffusl" wtf!?

    Please do not mislead people.
    Last edited by Tatcoolx; 12-17-2011 at 08:55 AM.

  9. #19
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    Kind of tangential but as two people have got this wrong so far; 2xDaedalus is 0.25 + (0.75*0.25) = 0.4375 chance to do critical damage

    e: apologies for the necro

  10. #20
    Basic Member Tatcoolx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kylo View Post
    Kind of tangential but as two people have got this wrong so far; 2xDaedalus is 0.25 + (0.75*0.25) = 0.4375 chance to do critical damage

    e: apologies for the necro
    Man, thank you!! When i wrote a post I was very angry of Dude's Post. My bad.
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