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Thread: AI - Enemy bots smarter

  1. #11
    Basic Member BLABLAFU's Avatar
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    Bots not spending gold is being discussed here

    Feel free to contribute if you find other problems.

  2. #12
    Basic Member warlord_7's Avatar
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    Yeah, it really looks like the AI on your team is much worse on purpose which is really annoying since I get the same *** in MM.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by alex2005 View Post
    Why are the bots on my team so bad? I don't get it... I'm always going top, and my "lane partner" sucks mega balls, leaves me 2v1...
    The bots on the other team are tower diving, ganking all over the place, like a team, whilst the bots on my team, god damn...

    I haven't won a game with the bots without using cheats, simply because they don't do anything...

    Creeps in base, destroying the nexus you'd think they would defend, nope, run around like headless chickens...

    This is frustrating because I can't try a new champ without having to be 5v1...
    I have found in bot games if I don't play a hard carry and farm my nuts off we lose 100% of the time.

  4. #14
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    Enemy bots will stick together and fight as a team midway through the game, run when they should, and look out for each other.

    Allied team bots:
    -Will come together, push a tower with you, suddenly decide to teleport away without you realizing, leaving you to get killed seconds later.

    -Run around in circles

    -Make a solo suicide run into two or more enemies with low health (looking at you, Juggernaut bot,) multiple times

    -Spread out late game and not work together

    -Call things they aren't actually doing ("defending bot" when they're at the enemy top tower running in circles

    A friend of mine and I started a bot match on different teams and both teams were dead even in kills instead of 15-3 or whatever.

    It's very obvious that allied bot AI and enemy AI sets are different.
    Last edited by Jonii; 11-17-2011 at 01:26 PM.

  5. #15
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    Good to know I'm not the only one realizing this.. It's very annoying. I can practise better in real matches atm than with bots cause the bots only learn me how to play arrogantly and try to carry 4 jerks.

  6. #16
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    (I went mid with Bloodseeker)

    This game after today's update ended up being a lot more even, but my team's bots still only came together to help push a tower as a team I think once, with a few three-man pushes through the beginning. I carried harder than I ever have in this game, landing us a good ten kills more in the end, but the bots almost never made a good unified push for a tower, leading to us never breaking all of their last line of towers (before the Ancient) except for the middle one. Then I had to solo their middle barracks while the bots farmed. Our worst problem ended up being creeps. Despite my constant ganking and keeping their team back, the bots could not keep their lanes, and we lost. It fell apart as crowds of creeps started trying to come in on both sides. I built Bloodseeker until I could one-shot all creeps with my autoattack, and after clearing the lanes and making a good defense (solo, mind you... I have no idea where the bots were while I was defending our base,) but they still managed to slowly break through. I had to try and clear up to make another push, but no bots followed me.

    In the final seconds, I had to run back to base from my desperate push, but didn't get there in time. The creeps were surrounding our ancient, my allied bots were nowhere to be found near them except for Zeus over against the wall attacking a single creep that was far away from the crowd of them, and the entire enemy team was gone I'm guessing because they knew they couldn't take me. (They'd been running on sight of me for the past 7 or so minutes before.)

    It was just disappointing that after all my work, doing better than I ever have in this game, the allied bots could not keep creeps in check during the late game. Two of them were 5 or more levels below the rest of the enemy bots.

    TL;DR: Game seems more even to me after 11/17 patch, but allied bots still have problems prioritizing or working together like the enemy bots do easily.
    Last edited by Jonii; 11-18-2011 at 02:40 AM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deargodalion View Post
    I have found in bot games if I don't play a hard carry and farm my nuts off we lose 100% of the time.
    This is true, or that you will play a ganker hero and go wild. Like Nightstalker or something.
    Please do something about friendly AI if possible. They are so annoying, while the enemies stick together and always focus you down first on teamfights so your useless AI allies can't do much.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenchi View Post
    This is true, or that you will play a ganker hero and go wild. Like Nightstalker or something.
    Please do something about friendly AI if possible. They are so annoying, while the enemies stick together and always focus you down first on teamfights so your useless AI allies can't do much.
    I find this a bit odd, I've lost only one of maybe 5 or 6 bot games I've played, and haven't played single carry charachter. No, I am not that good player either, and I feel that bots have done their share most of the time. It seems that bot playing hardcarry is usually better farmed and others tend to help him get his farm. Might be just my perception of it though. Throughly enjoying playing with bots

  9. #19
    Basic Member Duerkos's Avatar
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    I think the moment when allied bots do worse is in the late game. When you need to carefully defend the base and push some lanes, the allied bots tend to go together to one lane and get killed by a very good gank (yet very obvious) from the enemy team. The only thing you can do is follow them to death, ward, and pray. You can't do split-pushing with wards and then gank the enemy team, in example. And the enemy bots seem to do this (without wards).

    At early-mid game where heroes tend to be in their own lane, they do more or less good (even if they are a bit worse than the enemy bots). They even switch lanes if you go to a lane where there is already a bot or something. When they add commands for bots, I think it will be very easy to coordinate with them. So if I were the devs I would focus on the commands first, then see what to do with their IA when they play with humans.

  10. #20
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    For what it's worth, the code is exactly the same for bots that are on your team as bots on their own team. We're definitely not trying to make bots worse on your team intentionally!

    The one obvious difference is that bots on your team are trying to infer what you're doing, whereas all the bots know exactly what each other's intentions are (both among bots on your team and among the enemy team). In a lot of their desire scoring, their desires are magnified by other bots with the same desire ("oh you're pushing this lane, I'm pretty close, I'll help out!"). In general we can figure out what the human player is doing, though there are some tougher cases such as distinguishing between farming a lane and pushing a lane, and we don't always get it right.

    I can do three things that hopefully should help this:
    1) Look at how human-player pings decay. It might be too short, to abrupt, not strong enough of a desire bonus, etc.
    2) Have inferred human player intentions count for more than bot intentions ("oh a human is pushing a lane? that's worth two of my bot buddies pushing a lane, I'll switch to helping out!"). This one is a little tricky because you might not want your bot carry to stop farming to run around and help push lanes. But it's probably worth investigating.
    3) Work on the bot-command stuff more. This is planned, but is probably a longer-term thing.

    Also, the end-of-game bot logic is definitely the part that needs the most work (and is not coincidentally the hardest thing to make good test cases for). It will continue to get better over time!

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