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Thread: Contradicting Information about polygon count in Workshop Item Submission

  1. #1
    Basic Member DeathCult's Avatar
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    Exclamation Contradicting Information about polygon count in Workshop Item Submission

    I recently tried submitting a weapon for Phantom Assassin, for some reason I was not able to get the game client to recognize .smd file and compile it. Then I managed to get my weapon recognized in .fbx format. And this is where the problem starts. The game client says that the maximum polygon count for weapon is 600 (and that my weapon has more than 900+ polygons), but according to 3ds Max, my weapon has a polygon count of 506.
    After some tinkering around with 3ds Max, I found that there are two types of counts. One is triangle count and the other is polygon count. And the game is counting the triangle count, but what has been mentioned in the game/workshop submission is the polygon count.
    Please change this so that people who may submit any content to workshop do not get misled.
    My Dota 2 workshop AceMcShanks


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    Basic Member Kakkoii's Avatar
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    Polygons are any number of points connected together in a chain to form a shape. There are merely different names for different types of polygons. A triangle polygon has 3 vertices, a quadrilateral or "quad" has 4 verts and is what you're referring to. Did they not teach you about polygons in math class at your schools?

    When it comes to the game industry, if a person talks about polygon count, it is always in triangles, because graphics cards process triangles, not quads, and game engines deal with models that are broken into triangles.

    People model in quads though, because it is geometrically smarter, it allows one to control edge flows better, and for various modeling tools to be created that speed up the modeling process. Then it's just a simple operation of automatically splitting the quads in half to form triangles (you can actually see the two triangles that make up a quad if you pull one or two of the points in some other direction).
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    ^that, the "506 polygons" is probably almost all quads. Find the triangle count display then cut polys till you're under limit.
    Last edited by RCIX; 08-13-2012 at 12:47 AM.

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    Basic Member Storm's Avatar
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    While 3D editors allow you to use polygons with 4 or more sides, it is only an illusion. In fact, in 3D only triangles exist. All the more than 3 sided polygons in fact are built up of triangles. And because computers need to render out all triangles, this true polygon count is what determines the resource usage.

    Thus, the true resource cost depends on triangle count. This is why the requirement is in triangles. Otherwise I could make an item that consists of 30 ngons, and in fact having 5000 triangles, or 10000, or whatever.

    So if you are making something for a game, you have to think in triangles. You can optimize your mesh maximally if you tesselate it, and manually adjust the triangles for best result.
    Storm[HUN] ~~~ Sic itur ad astra, per aspera. | [Dotabuff]

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    Basic Member DeathCult's Avatar
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    Thank you for your explanation.

    I agree with you all, my point of creating this thread was to ask if the information provided is correct or not. Though I have a degree in computer science, this is the first time I am working on a full fledged model creation for any game. So I obviously do not have the knowledge that you people say is too obvious. I feel that adding some sort of notes or help regarding this very small thing will make life easier for people like me who are just starting out in 3d animation.
    My Dota 2 workshop AceMcShanks


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    Quote Originally Posted by DeathCult View Post
    Thank you for your explanation.

    I agree with you all, my point of creating this thread was to ask if the information provided is correct or not. Though I have a degree in computer science, this is the first time I am working on a full fledged model creation for any game. So I obviously do not have the knowledge that you people say is too obvious. I feel that adding some sort of notes or help regarding this very small thing will make life easier for people like me who are just starting out in 3d animation.
    Item creation for Dota 2 and TF2 really is not a simple concept - sure they can make better worded tutorials and documentation but the simple fact of the matter is creating visually appealing and structurally sound models for these games is not something you can learn over a weekend.

  7. #7
    Basic Member SoJa's Avatar
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    in 3ds max, Views -> Viewport Conf. -> Statistics -> Triangle Count

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    Basic Member DeathCult's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HMAN911 View Post
    Item creation for Dota 2 and TF2 really is not a simple concept - sure they can make better worded tutorials and documentation but the simple fact of the matter is creating visually appealing and structurally sound models for these games is not something you can learn over a weekend.
    I very well know that modelling and texturing is not a concept that can be learnt over a week end. And I have been learning this for the past 4 months, and so I consider myself new to animation.
    My Dota 2 workshop AceMcShanks


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    Basic Member DeathCult's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoJa View Post
    in 3ds max, Views -> Viewport Conf. -> Statistics -> Triangle Count
    Thanks!
    My Dota 2 workshop AceMcShanks


  10. #10
    Basic Member Storm's Avatar
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    not something you can learn over a weekend.
    Depends. Basic modeling can be learned in a few hours if you have talent. But to make a Dota 2 item, you need much much more than that, and those extra things really take time and effort. I can model something in a few hours, make a texture in like twice that time, but to make it ready for Submission? Still didn't got there with anything yet, LOL.
    Storm[HUN] ~~~ Sic itur ad astra, per aspera. | [Dotabuff]

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