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Thread: Please make a downloadable dump of GetMatchDetails for all matches

  1. #21
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    Well since there are new matches coming every second, it will be hard to get a dump all in one, but it would be nice to have one aggregated dump per month!
    It allows to easily include new data into your database without having to query the servers over and over again, it reduces load for both sides!
    A clear disadvantage for the users: Your update rate is once a month, maybe the dump-rate can be varied to once a week or similar.

    Regarding any post of Rurizie: I stopped reading your posts after your suggestions to scrape dotabuff.com, it's stupid. You make yourself dependent on what might be your direct competitor.
    • They could easily block access to their data.
    • You have to modify your scraper whenever they change their site structure.
    • You have to scrape at many different places to get all the data, that raises load on their and your site.


    <3 The ignore list. Won't see his braindead trolling anymore :3

  2. #22
    Basic Member Ruirize's Avatar
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    Did I say scrape? I was kinda hoping you'd have the brains to ask (Dotabuff).
    They are currently the only people with a complete dataset (that are likely to respond). I would say that this means that you'd have to go to them.

    But, seeing as you've decided you don't want to see my posts any longer (What an immature decision), why do I bother explaining?
    Last edited by Ruirize; 10-05-2012 at 04:37 AM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruirize
    Why do you need every single match?
    What use would it be?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruirize
    The colours can be changed by the user. Just average the value, that will be accurate enough. Don't bog yourself down with details. Focus on getting something working, even if it does look ugly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruirize
    Well it is unreasonable to expect the Valve devs to expose everything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruirize
    Plenty of reasons, sure. But nothing that you can't get from http://dotabuff.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruirize
    What I am saying is that there is little use for _ALL_ data other than to produce statistics about everyone, which dotabuff already does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruirize
    You need to also realise that the details exposed in GetMatchDetails are the same ones viewable ingame on the screen where you can download a replay - why would they need to show the number of wards
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruirize
    My main point is that releasing a torrent of the entire history of games isn't exceedingly useful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruirize
    Having all of the data has limited usefulness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruirize
    I appreciate the effort, but it is much simpler just to retrieve them locally, seeing as anyone can download the DotA 2 client now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruirize
    What you suggest here stipulates the need for positional information of the player's hero, which is only available through replays.
    He ignored you because your posts consist of myopic cynicism that appears to be posted for no other reason than to be contrary.

    Others have already covered the reasons for wanting a complete database dump. If you can't understand the wealth of data mining and statistical analyses that are possible with a complete view of all match details then that is a personal problem with you, not with others that have vision of real possibilities and the ability to make it happen.

    I admire dotabuff and their work. However there are many things they are not doing that I plan to. I have not asked for access to dotabuff's database because dotabuff has no incentive to share their data with anyone else. It would be against their interests to share their data. They have spent time and resources building their database with the intent to monetize it. Sharing that with competitors is unlikely.

    If you shift more towards positively contributing to the community rather than contradicting and questioning everyone then you may find that people won't be inclined to ignore you. Your reply to my thread about the building status fields is an example of a positive contribution. I suggest moving in that direction.

  4. #24
    Basic Member tomato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruirize View Post
    Did I say scrape? I was kinda hoping you'd have the brains to ask (Dotabuff).
    They are currently the only people with a complete dataset (that are likely to respond). I would say that this means that you'd have to go to them.

    But, seeing as you've decided you don't want to see my posts any longer (What an immature decision), why do I bother explaining?
    I asked Dotabuff a while ago and they are not interested in providing an alternative API or data of any kind. One of the reasons they stated was bandwidth, the other was that they technically have no permission from Valve to share any of this data. Especially since the Dotabuff data is obtained in a more questionable way than the official WebAPI this is very understandable.

  5. #25
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    Dotabuff isn't subject of discussion here because -- it's a third party and can never be used as reliable source because they can pull the plug whenever they want. Also ever since they're online since stats.dota2.be, they've been very secretive about their means of getting info and want to be exclusive or tell you other reasons why they won't share anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruirize View Post
    Edit: Alternatively, you could hit DotABuff up with an email asking if they'd be kind enough to share their dataset. They're very community conscious, I can't see them saying no, really.
    clearly..


    The idea behind doing stuff with stats is just based on having all data. I've spent a few night to create this: http://dota2.rn-clan.com/player/17480422 (yes its a bit of a ripoff but its just a tryout) -- it only contains matches I personally played in. I'd like to continue to make stuff with dota2 data but it's just not doable with the current limited api.

  6. #26
    Dotabuff has been very monopolistic and selfish concerning their valuable data and methods on how to get them other than the webapi, I highly doubt they hand out their database if someone asks them nicely. But since you're here, why not try and ask them yourself?

    Also, only because dotabuff does most of the statistics already, it doesn't invalidate the chance for other people to do something similar or the same.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by radonthetyrant View Post
    Dotabuff has been very monopolistic and selfish concerning their valuable data and methods on how to get them other than the webapi.
    Why are you talking bad about us if you have no idea what you're talking about?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharuler View Post
    Why are you talking bad about us if you have no idea what you're talking about?
    Would you be happy to release your historical data set or methods for obtaining this data? I wouldn't consider it monopolistic or selfish not to (you are, after all, a private enterprise) but I can understand why others would be frustrated when Valve appears to have turned off their API access (the legitimate method), but Dotabuff stuff has access either through underhanded means which Valve hasn't switched off, or through some special access provided to you.
    Last edited by nnx; 10-22-2012 at 12:17 PM.

  9. #29
    The likely way that dotabuff is gathering stats is by spoofing a DOTA2 client that requests match details.

    They may be using some custom solution but others have posted this project in the past, which may allow others to do the same. I have not used it so I am unable to provide any insight.

    While it does seem like Valve is turning a blind eye to dotabuff's method, nothing is stopping anyone else from implementing a similar solution.

    That said, the entire dotabuff topic is at best tangential to this thread's purpose and I would prefer it be taken to a new thread if people care to debate it.
    Last edited by walkingcarpet; 10-22-2012 at 12:52 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by nnx View Post
    Would you be happy to release your historical data set or methods for obtaining this data?
    As you can probably understand, we can't do that.

    It would hurt our "business", which is us paying almost 1000 dollars/month for server capacity (out of our own pockets) and getting called monopolistic and selfish by some people...

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