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Thread: Dear Devs: Please make hero names consistent as all Titles, not names

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  1. #1

    Dear Devs: Please make hero names consistent as all Titles, not names

    Thanks for making Dota 2, it's quite the fun game but one thing has been of great confusion /bother to several players of this game and has lead to confusion in how to refer to your heroes. The inconsistency in naming between lore names and lore titles.

    In the original DotA website, all heroes were listed and referred to by TITLE with a subtitle of their LORE NAME!
    http://www.playdota.com/heroes

    My proposal: stop mixing up lore names and lore titles when referring to heroes and make all characters listed by TITLE. Change Mirana to Princess of the Moon. Change Luna to Moon Rider. So on and so forth. But have some subtitle so that people who want to see what their names are can see.

    I don't believe ordering each character by lore name would be a good idea, as some names simply aren't easy to pronounce/ spell. However, titles are a different story.

    I'd like to see:
    Princess of the Moon
    Name: Mirana

    Lifestealer
    Name: N'aix

    etc.

    Sometimes names are used, sometimes titles are used. It leads to a lot of unnecessary confusion:
    Sven? Shadow Shaman? Puck? Witch Doctor? Mirana? Lifestealer? Lina? Crystal Maiden?

    That brings me to Timbersaw for example. Being a new name for this character, the question arose: is that his lore name, meaning Timbersaw the Goblin Shredder? Or is that his lore title, meaning Rizzrak the Timbersaw? Until more info was released nobody really knew. It really should not be that confusing, looking at it we should know either "all heroes are referred to in hero picker by title, so Timbersaw is his title" OR "all heroes are referred to in hero picker by name, so Timbersaw is his lore name." It's poor design to have such inconsistency.

    So by that logic above,
    Timbersaw
    Name: Rizzrak

    There exists a thread about this issue with hundreds of posts, however no fruitful dev feedback has come of it and also I feel it is located in the wrong thread. It's located in Lore when it should be more of a Hero Picker type thread. By lore, we know what are the names and what are the titles, thus it's in-game in the hero picker and other in-game options that refer to heroes that we need to have consistency.

    Why not make it Rogue Knight, Shadow Shaman, Faerie Dragon, Witch Doctor, Princess of the Moon, Lifestealer, Slayer, Crystal Maiden, etc. (preferred)
    Yes some will be displeased that they don't see their favorite hero's name, hence you should list it by title and include the name underneath or something like that.

    Some have argued that names, being as inconsistent as they are, are being chosen due to popularity. HOWEVER this is not true! Lifestealer was more commonly referred to as N'aix, yet in this game he is named Lifestealer. Timbersaw is an obvious exception to this "popularity" rule, it's a totally new "lore title" hence it CANNOT be the "popular" name.

    Some have argued that copyrights are the concern here. Again, this is NOT true. Lore names have been modified (Rikimaru -> Riki) and are used in the hero picker. Lore titles have been modified (Goblin Shredder -> Timbersaw, and Obsidian Destroyer -> Outworld Destroyer) and are used in the hero picker. Copyrights are NOT the concern with this inconsistency, as the devs have already shown they can change at will / modify the copyright-in-question name at will.

    Bottom line: it is the DEV's poor design choice, NOT copyright, and NOT popularity, that has caused this inconsistency in naming of these heroes. And it's only going to cause more confusion down the road, as the list of heroes gets bigger.

    I'd like a dev's response to this thread explaining why we can't have them ALL as titles, even if modified like Outworld Destroyer (instead of the original Obsidian Destroyer).

    My suggestion is to make all heroes listed by their TITLE. Have their names listed below or above or somewhere else for consistency.

    More ideas here:
    http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=166

    Lastly, some have argued "you can rename it yourself by customizing it." Please, this is not about an individual alone asking for consistency, besides myself many have asked for this to be consistent as well. Furthermore, it's also so that all the gamers universally can instantly see and just know "that's that hero's title, what I am referring to in-game is that hero's title. The hero might have a lore name that is a subheading underneath but at least I know what I have picked is the lore title."
    Last edited by walkthewok; 12-31-2012 at 08:48 PM.

  2. #2
    Basic Member wesai's Avatar
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    Imo, make the hero title as standard, then when you hover your mouse above the title, it displays their name. :3

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by hurt View Post
    You good sir, disqualified your constructive feedback into a trollfest.

    So let me help you:



    /fixed

    Ontopic: I think changing every hero name to their title sucks. Yes, I hate the inconsistency but playing the "Moon Rider" just sounds bad.

    Solution: Just display both. Seriously though, I don't know the lore names of Chaos Knight, Witch Doctor or Shadow Shaman. Seems like the inconsistency isn't completely wrong.
    Thank you, adjusted accordingly. Also, your solution to display both would be good, IF there is consistency (i.e. it shows the TITLE and then name as subheading, or shows the lore NAME and then title as subheading). Also, you don't know the Lore Names of Chaos Knight, Witch Doctor, or Shadow Shaman because 1) in-game right now they are some of the heroes being referred to by title, and 2) Chaos Knight doesn't have a lore name yet. Otherwise, if Witch Doctor and Shadow Shaman right now were referred to as Zharvakko and Rhasta, you would know them in-game as such. Additionally, your opinion "Moon Rider" just sounds bad can be equally applied to all the current heroes who are being named by generic titles.

    The main problem is this. Look at characters like, Tiny, Tinker, and Timbersaw. Are those their titles? Or are those their lore names? It could easily go either way.
    ____ the Tiny
    ____ the Tinker <-actual
    ____ the Timbersaw <-actual
    or
    Tiny the _______ <-actual
    Tinker the ______
    Timbersaw the _______

    Unless we look into to see what valve has decided, we CANNOT know for certain what their lore name or title is. (if Tiny as a title it would obviously be a facetious one, Tinker could be a name, same with Timbersaw could also be a name). The problem is unless we look up each individual lore and understand, we won't know if that's their title or name. And it shouldn't be that confusing to know. Why be convoluted? It's not optimized and it just doesn't make sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by NecroBr View Post
    well, i agree with displaying both the name and title, many players don't played DotA 1 and don't know some(basic IMO) heroes names like Furion, the Nature's Prophet. althogh some names can't be used, as far as i know, for copyright issues i.e. Thrall, the Disruptor
    Another BIG problem. Some name changes are hidden/ not very clear. His title in-game is Nature's Prophet, and people still refer to him as Furion, but he's NOT Furion. Ah, you see, his Dota 2 name changed to Tequoia. And where is the clear sign saying "Nature's Prophet, Name: Tequoia?" Nowhere to be found easily at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5chneemensch View Post
    Vice-versa. Names as standard.

    Regardless of outcome, we need fucking consistency.
    Agree about the consistency. If names were standard, how will you know what to search for in terms of heroes when the name changes? When a name changes, there is no logic to say "oh, that must be the new hero's name." You have to go out of your way to learn it. At least if the title changes (Obsidian Destroyer -> Outworld Destroyer, or Goblin Shredder -> Timbersaw) there's some meaning behind the title that will allow you to associate the new title with the old and say "oh he's Timbersaw" or "oh he's still OD", vs Tequoia, i.e. "what the heck that's not his name, it's FURION, what does Tequoia have anything to do with Furion?"
    Hence my recommendation: Keep it as titles.

    However, if names must be used instead of titles for the purpose of consistency, so be it.

    Quote Originally Posted by wesai View Post
    Imo, make the hero title as standard, then when you hover your mouse above the title, it displays their name. :3
    That's a great idea! Or something along those lines, i.e. reverse Names displayed and then titles, would go a big way!

    Dev response please?
    Last edited by walkthewok; 12-31-2012 at 09:15 PM.

  4. #4
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    Vice-versa. Names as standard.

    Regardless of outcome, we need fucking consistency.

  5. #5
    Basic Member fluffeeh's Avatar
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    Meh, we don't need people to remember 2 names.
    Pointless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fluffeeh View Post
    Meh, we don't need people to remember 2 names.
    Pointless.
    Sigh, you sure are limited...Besides, you don't have to remember both names. On other hand, I bet some new players tend to get confused when some refers to their hero using a diferent name.

    Anyways, title AND name pls. Why cant we have both?

  7. #7
    Basic Member ZabatieL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fluffeeh View Post
    Meh, we don't need people to remember 2 names.
    Pointless.
    ^This!!

  8. #8
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    ^ to all the mindless nobs with no opinion of their own.
    we could all be playing the game is 640x480 cuz it's pointless to have anything else of that kind too.
    polish of the game is never pointless.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkthewok View Post
    It really should not be that confusing, looking at it we should know either "all champs are referred to in hero picker by title, so Timbersaw is his title" OR "all champs are referred to in hero picker by name, so Timbersaw is his lore name." It's poor design to have such inconsistency.
    You good sir, disqualified your constructive feedback into a trollfest.

    So let me help you:

    Quote Originally Posted by walkthewok View Post
    It really should not be that confusing, looking at it we should know either "all heroes are referred to in hero picker by title, so Timbersaw is his title" OR "all heroes are referred to in hero picker by name, so Timbersaw is his lore name." It's poor design to have such inconsistency.
    /fixed

    Ontopic: I think changing every hero name to their title sucks. Yes, I hate the inconsistency but playing the "Moon Rider" just sounds bad.

    Solution: Just display both. Seriously though, I don't know the lore names of Chaos Knight, Witch Doctor or Shadow Shaman. Seems like the inconsistency isn't completely wrong.

  10. #10
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    well, i agree with displaying both the name and title, many players don't played DotA 1 and don't know some(basic IMO) heroes names like Furion, the Nature's Prophet. althogh some names can't be used, as far as i know, for copyright issues i.e. Thrall, the Disruptor

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