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Thread: 16:9 vs 16:10, inequality

  1. #21
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    Just one question. Is horizontal view more important than vertical view while playing DotA? (Answer is no)

    I mean it's like you could see further looking towards North/South than looking to the West/East. I just can't get it. DotA is not a First Person Shooter where looking to the left/right is not the same as looking to the sky/at your feet.

  2. #22
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    gr!mun, in fact if you think about it, I don't think there is a real reason why tv's and monitors stray far from the most logical shape which is a damn square (correct me if I'm wrong). Screens which are square sized have the biggest surface, whilst 16:9 screens are only good to "steal" inches because we measure the diagonal and not the surface. I don't understand what is the purpose of widescreen. In most games, I would prefer the good old 4:3 aspect ratio with high resolutions, as it provided the best view both vertically and horizontally. 16:9 shows as you already said, a lot more in the x axis than in the y axis. For example, if Dire attacks Radiant from the bottom lane, the defenders will have a WAY better view than if Dire attacks from the top lane. This is bullshit in my eyes, but for some reason everyone has accepted 16:9 and I guess we will have to adapt.

    I would seriously want to know what's wrong with 1:1, if someone would care to tell me. I have already opened another topic in the dev forums because me myself had zoom problems. Seems one of them was my 4:3 ratio, the other being an auto zoom bug when you place the mouse off screen in order to slide.

  3. #23
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    I agree that in many situations widescreen is pointless; but for TVs it is probably good. Normal vision, ie. vision with our two eyes in the real world, is wider than it is tall. So for that reason it kind of makes sense to have widescreen for films and for first-person games. But for most other things non-widescreen is probably better - including top-down games of all kinds, internet browsing, and so on.

    For dota, 1:1 ratio would be the natural choice, because as you say it makes no sense to be able to see further to the sides compared to top and bottom. In fact, since the HUD takes up some room at the bottom it may even better to have a screen that is taller than it is wide! .. if only we were allowed to actually use the extra height in the same way that widescreen is allowed to use the extra width.

  4. #24
    If our eyes were one on top one on bottom and we read top to bottom, then they would make it tall screen and not wide screen.

    No one buys new 4:3 screens for gaming, and those who still have them just don't want to spend to get better gear.

    Please make this game compatible with my celeron with 256MB Ram, anyone with a i7 and 12GB has an unfair advantage.

    If we're putting in black bars I vote we add top and bottom bars to the 4:3 screens to make them into 16:9, I didn't spend good money on my 1080p monitor to have it gimped to 4:3 when gaming.

  5. #25
    Basic Member Almadiel's Avatar
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    Giving 4:3 a larger field of view (in either dimension, horizontal or vertical) would definitely be a mistake. 16:9 or 16:10 may not be ideal for a game like Dota, but its the standard nonetheless. You have to dig just to find 4:3 monitors to buy, and those monitors are almost all old models that have vastly inferior performance.

    for 16:9 vs 16:10, I think that the vertical field of view is much more important. Especially in side lanes your ability to see above and below has a much larger effect than side to side. Losing a small amount of horizontal FOV in 16:10 shouldn't affect gameplay that much, as its already wider than it really needs to be.

    As for the letterbox idea, you can already do that depending on how your monitor scales. With a 4:3 or 16:10 monitor just set your aspect ratio to 16:9 in fullscreen within Dota and it will output a 16:9 image, which a good monitor should letterbox either by default or as an option. If your monitor is cheap and doesn't let you set scaling options, you should be able to have your video drivers scale it correctly (size and position settings in the nvidia control panel I think).

    Or you could just play in windowed mode with a black wallpaper.
    Last edited by Almadiel; 12-13-2011 at 07:44 PM.

  6. #26
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    I don't think anyone is saying 4:3 should have a larger field of view. I'm just saying that it should have equal field of view, not more, and not less.

    I don't really see how up/down vision is more important than left/right vision. You say that up/down is particular important in the side lanes; but that doesn't seem right to me. For example, bottom lane for the Dire is more likely to be ganked from the side than from the top or bottom; and similarly for top lane for the Radiant. From my point of view, which is more important of up/down and left/right depends on where you are on the map; and in general they are of equal importance.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodmoth View Post
    gr!mun, in fact if you think about it, I don't think there is a real reason why tv's and monitors stray far from the most logical shape which is a damn square (correct me if I'm wrong). Screens which are square sized have the biggest surface, whilst 16:9 screens are only good to "steal" inches because we measure the diagonal and not the surface. I don't understand what is the purpose of widescreen. In most games, I would prefer the good old 4:3 aspect ratio with high resolutions, as it provided the best view both vertically and horizontally. 16:9 shows as you already said, a lot more in the x axis than in the y axis. For example, if Dire attacks Radiant from the bottom lane, the defenders will have a WAY better view than if Dire attacks from the top lane. This is bullshit in my eyes, but for some reason everyone has accepted 16:9 and I guess we will have to adapt.

    I would seriously want to know what's wrong with 1:1, if someone would care to tell me. I have already opened another topic in the dev forums because me myself had zoom problems. Seems one of them was my 4:3 ratio, the other being an auto zoom bug when you place the mouse off screen in order to slide.
    A humans field of vision isn't 1:1 though, and the screen is merely meant to be "easy to view", if you want a big screen to be 1:1 the fact is it cannot be made very tall, because a human will not be able to see it all very easily without being far away. The result is that products started going wider instead of taller, 16:9 and 16:10 is close to what a humans field of view is.

  8. #28
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    Everyone should see the same viewable game space no matter what your aspect ratio is. Also the black bar commands should be disabled because you can add a black bar on the bottom just up until the mini map. This allows you to see area which is previously been blocked by the ui and there is more game viewing space at the bottom and a thus a advantage.

    I really do hope this gets fixed.

  9. #29
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    4:3 monitors are pretty cool for multimonitor setups. And contrary to the popular belief, they're pretty easy to find if you know where to look at.

    Anyways, all this aspect ratio thing could easily be ignored if we could zoom out more. But then we'd need a way to prevent a player to see the whole map. If only we had a way to hide the parts of the maps that aren't in the direct vincinity of the player characters and allied units... Hmmm...

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almadiel View Post
    You have to dig just to find 4:3 monitors to buy, and those monitors are almost all old models that have vastly inferior performance.
    Here, actually, you are incorrect. CRT monitors are known to still have the better colours, better response times and are free of many of other problems that LCDs suffer. I just felt I had to point that out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Almadiel View Post
    for 16:9 vs 16:10, I think that the vertical field of view is much more important. Especially in side lanes your ability to see above and below has a much larger effect than side to side. Losing a small amount of horizontal FOV in 16:10 shouldn't affect gameplay that much, as its already wider than it really needs to be.
    Vertical field is more important, but having less vision on the sides has a pretty big impact nonetheless. I'm currently on 4:3 and ever since I started playing dota 2 I felt like I didn't see enough. When I saw a livestream of someone on 16:9 I immediately noticed a huge difference.
    Now I'm not saying that 4:3 should be made a standard, and I actually bought a new monitor partially for the reason of playing this game (but more because I just want to get rid of this fatass 30KG thing), BUT what I'm trying to say that there should be sort-of an optimization for 4:3, so that it's not such a big disadvantage... atm, it's as if you automatically played on 50% health Handicap in StarCraft 2 AUTOMATICALLY without KNOWING about it.

    Point is, as it stands, it is in my opinion unacceptable at its current state. In 4:3, you can't have both your hero reasonable distance from creeps (normal/ballanced laning with long range heroes), see the creeps AND see the enemy hero in mid lane at the same time.
    P.S.: This isn't really directed to you as you were talking about 16:10 vs 16:9, which truly is hardly noticable.

    Seriously, just make it so that there are automatically lines above and bellow the screen and make the screen 16:10 for 4:3 as standard. For beta there can be just black lines, for live there will be some alright looking border... problem solved

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