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Thread: My two cents on the performancebar change

  1. #1
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    My two cents on the performancebar change

    [General info about the change]
    The old system compared your stats with other players of your skill level, while the new system only compares the heroes you played.

    [Summary]
    The old system made progress of the performance really painful, since most of the time you would only go down in performance. You were losing more progress as you gained. But after all, it did compare you with other players and if there are players who are better, the bar has to go down. The new system makes you feel good about yourself since there will always be YOUR best hero. You can't have no good hero. You can compare your heroes and really see your progress towards getting better. But in the end it is just your playstlye of that hero, you can always suck, as long as you suck even more with the rest of the heroes. All in all both systems had their ups and downs while the new one makes it easier for new players the see their progress of getting a better player. But for more experienced players the comparison with "the rest of the world" is missing.
    With this comparsion one thing came to my mind. Why don't we have both stats? One page for the comparison of the heroes you play and one page comparing you with the other players.
    In that way, you always see your progress while still having the chance to check out how good you are in comparison.

    -- TL;DR --
    [Pros & Cons - old system]

    +you could compare with other players
    +you could say "I'm the best x player in my skill region"

    - The progress was rather discouraging (going down with the bar)
    - progress was really slow
    - only some players could feel good about them selfes (the best x players of each skill region)


    [Pros & Cons - new system]
    +it's easy to tell which hero is YOUR best hero
    +the progess is much better since there are less factors considered (amount of heroes)

    -takes away comparision to other players
    -isn't really meaningfull for many players


    [Suggestion]
    Just give us two pages of performance. One comparing your played heroes with each other (new system) and one page for comparing those heroes with other players (old system).
    In this way you can see your progress of getting better with a hero, while still having the chance of comparing that hero with other players.

  2. #2
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    i like the idea! its well analized and it makes sense to me
    thank u for sharing!

  3. #3
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    Regarding the old system, I think it's important to point out that the point of providing this information isn't to feel good about yourself (and Valve shouldn't go out of their way to protect people from themselves). Regarding the new system, my biggest problem is that heroes are incomparable. Even if that weren't true, though, what metrics do you compare them on? How do you compare a Rhasta to a Void? How do go about deciding how to compare them? What about heroes that support several different playstyles? How useful is my Invoker bar if I play Exort 60% of the time and Wex 40% of the time? How useful is my Venge bar if I sometimes go carry Venge just for fun but largely play a 4 or 5 role (which I specifically point out because what I imagine is an easy out for this is to just construct metrics for each hero based on what's typical across the playerbase).

    Beyond those issues, though, why must the systems be exclusive (after you do work out their problems)? I'd really like to be able to compare my performance on specific heroes to other players around my skill level. I LOVED the idea of the old performance bars. I'm not sure they were always done particularly well (the system shares some of the problems I pointed out in the previous paragraph, I think), but I'm also kind of reserved about that in that maybe they were done really well and there are just some odd truths to playerbase that makes them feel strange.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fen View Post
    Regarding the old system, I think it's important to point out that the point of providing this information isn't to feel good about yourself (and Valve shouldn't go out of their way to protect people from themselves). Regarding the new system, my biggest problem is that heroes are incomparable. Even if that weren't true, though, what metrics do you compare them on? How do you compare a Rhasta to a Void? How do go about deciding how to compare them? What about heroes that support several different playstyles? How useful is my Invoker bar if I play Exort 60% of the time and Wex 40% of the time? How useful is my Venge bar if I sometimes go carry Venge just for fun but largely play a 4 or 5 role (which I specifically point out because what I imagine is an easy out for this is to just construct metrics for each hero based on what's typical across the playerbase).

    Beyond those issues, though, why must the systems be exclusive (after you do work out their problems)? I'd really like to be able to compare my performance on specific heroes to other players around my skill level. I LOVED the idea of the old performance bars. I'm not sure they were always done particularly well (the system shares some of the problems I pointed out in the previous paragraph, I think), but I'm also kind of reserved about that in that maybe they were done really well and there are just some odd truths to playerbase that makes them feel strange.
    That is the reason why I mention new players regarding the new system. Because for someone that's learning Dota 2, it's nice to see how you get better with a hero after practicing with him. But then again for advanced players those stats don't say too much (Ofcourse it's nice to have them). As you said, how could the program compare the playstyles of some heroes (for example invoker) with other heroes of a completly different type (let's say Skeleton King). That's why I think the new system is not bad (good for beginners and for a general overview + progress) but shouldn't replace the old one (which as you say could have some improvements here and there).

  5. #5
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    i think its really important to take into account that a lot of people are new and i noticed that when i saw that a big percentage of the matches played are against bots. the few times i did play against them 90% of the people there where still in early stages of learning so i guess for them their personal improvement is really important without caring for other players ratings. So personal stats thet compare players to themselves should be really taken into account!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecrit View Post
    [Pros & Cons - old system]
    +you could compare with other players
    +you could say "I'm the best x player in my skill region"
    Except you couldn't. I haven't seen how the new performance bar functions, but whatever the old performance bar tracked it was not who was the best 'X' in whatever skill bracket. n0tail #1 meepo in the world on DBR, gets a 2/5 on the performance meter.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nasbin View Post
    Except you couldn't. I haven't seen how the new performance bar functions, but whatever the old performance bar tracked it was not who was the best 'X' in whatever skill bracket. n0tail #1 meepo in the world on DBR, gets a 2/5 on the performance meter.
    As myself and others have said, it didn't necessarily do a good job of determining what qualified as "best", but the idea is right.

  8. #8
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    As for before i was 100% sure this bars ware "made up" from no idea what.
    Same goes here... Heros i was supposed to be best of best in region now say i suck using them lol...

    This people have no idea how measure skill. Mby tell them to ask Riot or dotabuff :S

  9. #9
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    it still is impossible to measure skill and performance. I'd say stop trying. Stick with basic statistics and thats that. There is no way to compare a support maiden buying all sorts of shit with 0 farm 0 xp with a ezalor that split pushes all game and has top farm and xp. Both are as useful.

    What I woud like to be measured, is missing last hits. meaning the last hits you attempt and fail to get. Those are the worst, especially if you fuck up your teamate whos trying to farm.

    Also the skill/activable items usage in battle. The bad players forget about them and don't use them (the disabled items should opt out - dagger)

    Going full dps vs a nuker team should punish that player greatly. I see this day after day, the stupidity of understanding item builds.

    No hero is supposed to play carry or support. They all can have whatever role, so I want to punish the guys flaming and forcing you to play the way they want. Sacrificing yourself for them.

    maybe i got a little sidetracked here. I think we should just go back to full statistics of buildings/towers/consumables/wards/apm/movement on the map/xp/gpm etc

  10. #10
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    I don't like the idea of performance bar at all. It represents nothing. It's too aggregated and abstract. Give us detailed stats per hero with performance charts, graphs etc.

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