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Thread: Dota 2 Cosmology - WIP

  1. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by zinus View Post
    about lore and heroes who are not an obvious fit to their faction.

    I kinda liked when enigma was on the radiant side, it kinda made no sense but that was the point!!! its freaking enigma.

    Now alot of heroes are neutral in dota1, and here they have to be aligned so some won't be ideal fits.
    Neutral?

    I remember IF removed the Neutral Taverns.

    Actually, there aren't any neutral taverns in the current version.

    Thus, you make no sense.
    "HUMAN ELEMENT"

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowThanatos View Post
    Neutral?

    I remember IF removed the Neutral Taverns.

    Actually, there aren't any neutral taverns in the current version.

    Thus, you make no sense.
    Yep no neutral taverns now, but when the heroes vere originaly created (well most of them), there were neutral taverns (so they were kinda made to fit the neutral lore), and most of those neutral heroes don't really (perfectly) fit in any of the groups now.

    Also just because froggy removed the neutral taverns it doesn't make all the heroes magicaly fit into their respective factions (lorewise).

    Anyway, i was just stating why there are heroes who kinda don't fit into their faction :3

  3. #113
    Basic Member thyL's Avatar
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    I am pretty sure that Ice added the neutral taverns just some versions ago, saw they suck and took 'em out again (actually due to some rearrangements I believe). When I started DotA there was only Sentinel and Scourge, I think.


    PS: Holy "!% that took long to remember "Sentinel and Scourge" instead of using Radiant and Dire. :/

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by thyL View Post
    I am pretty sure that Ice added the neutral taverns just some versions ago, saw they suck and took 'em out again (actually due to some rearrangements I believe). When I started DotA there was only Sentinel and Scourge, I think.


    PS: Holy "!% that took long to remember "Sentinel and Scourge" instead of using Radiant and Dire. :/
    :O now that you say that, i can't remember the deal with neutral taverns. it seems like they were there forever ... duh, now i will have to get an old version of dota and find an old wc3 patch to make it compatible >.>
    ...damn you memory...


    edit: neutral taverns were removed in 6.70, now just to find when were they added xD
    edit2: duh, from the net i can only find 6.60 as the version where added.... makes me wonder why i remember neutral taversn so vividly when in fact i was playing 99% of the time when they were no neutral taverns around o.O ...
    Last edited by zinus; 07-05-2012 at 02:17 AM.

  5. #115
    Basic Member deru_ftw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thyL View Post
    I am pretty sure that Ice added the neutral taverns just some versions ago, saw they suck and took 'em out again (actually due to some rearrangements I believe). When I started DotA there was only Sentinel and Scourge, I think.


    PS: Holy "!% that took long to remember "Sentinel and Scourge" instead of using Radiant and Dire. :/
    <3 Razor being in the neutral tavern and always saying "FOR THE LICH KING".
    Yea. Glad Ice changed his mind about that.

  6. #116
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    could u send me a link of where all the dota 2 lore is written?
    Dota 2 is my Passion.

  7. #117
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    Yeah Its an alluring read I like it but I agree with Helepolis " Moonstuff " sounds as if you want to describe it as some unknown moon matter but don`t want to make it to obvious so "stuff" .lol
    May I suggest : Moonglut
    Moonmatter
    Mooncorrupt
    Moonflumox
    Moonfell Moonfall
    Moonsludge
    Moonremnants
    Moon Macorin and cheese
    I don`t know Moonstuff does sound cool though.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eternalsteelfan View Post
    The arbitrary nature of the conflict and emphasis on the neutrality of the factions is somewhat off-putting. While it may seem gritty or edgey to try and color the morality of DotA as grey, a reality of storytelling is that the concept of Good vs. Evil is innately human and appealing and in Dota we have a perfect microcosm of that conflict. There are two polar factions on a symmetrical map opposing each other and engaging in a titanic conflict, by emphasizing their similarities their stark contrasts are downplayed when they should be embraced and the effect is a homogenization of the factions and characters.

    The idea of "endless war" set up by these godly ancients may also be a misstep. By setting up the heroes more as pawns in a game, they all are made less powerful and unique. The heroes' motivation as we know it is singular and universally the same: fighting for the supremacy their ideology (which is already cheapened by it's likening to the opposing ideology). A good story is always about not only the characters but the how and why; wise people once told me it's about what the protagonist wants vs. what the protagonist needs, and in it's current incarnation this story currently lacks the wants and the needs are homogenized amongst all heroes. The conflict of these two factions is fine, but it isn't enough to be the singular motive of each character, what they want has to exist for what they need to be the battle. The other flaw of the endless war is that it is futile and something we don't actually care about. How much would we care about The Battle for Helm's Deep or The Battle of Stalingrad if they didn't feel like the most important battles ever or if there would be another one every couple of minutes? It makes sense logically, millions of players playing millions of DotA matches is endless, but it doesn't help the story. Rather than endless, make the battle of DotA the one battle that really matters, the one Stalingrad, the one Helm's Deep, reimagined each game. Right now we have no stake.

    As is, we have a story about two factions whose only differences are superficial fighting a never ending war with combatants with the same motivation whom are grouped by their appearance. We don't care about the factions because they are almost the same. We don't care about the conflict because what they are fighting for doesn't matter to us. We don't care about the characters because they all have the same goal and are merely pawns in this game of arbitrary superpowers. This is bad storytelling. Instead of working to point out the similarities of the factions, work to point out their differences. Instead of an endless war, make this battle the one that really matters. Instead of heroes fighting for the same reason just on two different sides, give them unique causes and motives. Embrace the differences and contrasts of the factions, ideologies, and heroes. If you want to tell a good story you have to capture our attention and then hold it; make us care.

    TL;DR

    The factions are too similar, the conflict too generic and pointless, and the characters are gimped by their homogenized single motivation.


    I had written a well thought out and cleaner critique, but it was lost with some log in/log out error. Hopefully this suffices. If something isn't clear or doesn't make sense, please ask.
    You misunderstand the lore completely. The heroes do not view their motivations as the ancients do. They are simply led to believe or manipulated into believing that fighting will help them reach their goals.

  9. #119
    We need a map of the dota 2 world.

  10. #120

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